News   Nov 14, 2024
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Star of Downtown, The (Willowfield/Norstar, 12s, Kirkor) COMPLETE

I see the need for better design education - visual literacy - in order to encourage consumers to be more demanding. We can expand design culture to include the consumer, not just the professional who creates the object. That, and a City that requires the best work from architects through a design review process that works. And architects who assume responsibility for reclaiming an area such as housing so it becomes something more than a commodity produced by developers and marketers who prey on the confusion and nostalgia of the undemanding consumer, would be a good sign.

Preconceived notions about what something is "supposed" to look like are also a huge problem at all levels - among consumers and producers of products, including buildings. Design is a problem-solving process leading to an end result that includes aesthetical considerations, and when I look at most buildings I get the feeling that far too little time was spent on the conceptual stage, and rethinking things from the ground up.
 
I've always assumed we're closely allied in outlook. My trained eye is a product of an art school, my working language is the visual, and I judge the world by appearences. I can spot an angled Spire balcony a block away.
 
I think with a development like this, its important to look past the design of the building. And look at what this type of development does for the community.

St. Jamestown is not as bad as other notorious areas of Toronto, but it could point the way for future developments which can break the back of crime and gangsterism in many other areas of the city. Of course it has to be done on a larger scale to make any real difference. Mixed income nieghbourhoods are always better to large scale slum/or poor people housing where gangs and hoodlums find fertile territory to due their daily trades.
 
There is no reason to look past (and forgive) the exterior design of an ugly building. The building can still perform the neighbourhood functions you are looking for Caltrane and look good. We should continue to criticize bad design when we see it.

I am glad there is new investment and appropriately scaled development in the area. It's too bad it's such a crappy looking joke though.

42
 
Design and design

Although I've made this point before (and it always goes over like a lead balloon) I'm not really in the habit of encouraging or making excuses for ugly buildings.

Zephyr, I like your calling attention to the two elements of design, which includes both use and aesthetics. I'm assuming, since no one has stated otherwise, that no one really objects to the size or uses of this building or the way it "meets the street" (ie., there will be stores). I often wish that the word "design" didn't exist, since it opens up such a confusion of aesthetic considerations and use considerations, I find that Christopher Hume's columns do this frequently, they are a jumble of considerations of use and aesthetics, so that sometimes he says nothing negative about a building at all and then gives it (deservingly) a D - because it's fugly. But he hasn't actually said that, he's only referred to what it "gives back to the city".

I believe most people on this board they say "design" mean the aesthetics of a building and nothing wrong with that - I generally prefer good looking buildings to ugly ones and generally agree with UrbanShocker, interchange42 etc., about which is which). I really do wish that the Star was better looking, and I think Zephyr's rebuttals about cost and/or chances of getting built are well taken.

One thing I think is interesting is that two proposals have been made about how to make buildings that look better:

Zephyr said, "If nothing else the developers would be on guard, ideally on notice, that somebody is aware they are trying to sneak in the backdoor, the bad, the worse, and the offensive" while Shocker said "We can expand design culture to include the consumer".

The first of these ("force the developers/designers through some kind of collective action) leads us inevitably to design panels, the current political solution to our mishmash of bad and good. I'm in favour of design panels, but having witnessed their execution in Vancouver I am also a bit leery about them. Vancouver avoids the worst of what Toronto gets - the Stars - but I find the expo lands are too much of a piece and that the buildings there are too similar to my taste. Though I might admire much of it, in the end I find the area oppressive and am happy to skip on back to the West End, with it's mixture of blights and pleasure. That might just be my taste - I prefer London's unpredictability to Paris's anal prettiness - but I nonetheless look forward to panels in this city.

The second of these ("educate the consumers") I find frankly funny. We've all had the experience of people, educated and lovely people who can make a mean salad, saying "the one condo I really like is that one on Jarvis" (I refer, of course, to the French Quarter). The idea that we might educate consumers to prefer nicer looking buildings seems to arise from a gross misunderstanding of how our commercial society works. And frankly, if I were to educate consumers, educating them to choose an aesthetically appealing building would be fairly far down my list of things to start with. Utility, which not excusing ugliness, is so much more important. Would I prefer that consumers purchase the Star of Downtown that some really beautiful sleek houses in former farmland in Milton? Yes, I would. Anyways, consumer education is a loser's game, no one really wants it to happen because then our economy would fall apart as people realize they don't actually need 14 different kinds of body cream that do, well, nothing.

I am leaving today for greener and better designed pastures. I shall endeavour to take some photos along the way.

Oh, and BugEyed, I suspect you're in the wrong forum.
 
Oh, and BugEyed, I suspect you're in the wrong forum.

Um, with respect I think Brit has a point. Perhaps the Building and Architecture forum is a more appropriate forum for this rather esoteric level of discussion?
 
well thanks for all the lovely intellectual discussion about somewhere none of you are actually ever going to live in, and while I can see merit in a lot of the arguements put forth, a lot also seems to be who can out-pseud each other, its not the best looking building in Toronto, so what! There are many pretty ugly buildings in Toronto, quite a few are uglier,but for the love of god, stop pretending it actually matters.

Just a suggestion. If you don't like something, someone is saying, try to offer a rebuttal only, without calling them a name. I hope you don't think that there are no other views out there, except your own of course, that might be of interest? I for one was not "pretending" about anything I stated, it happens to be how I see it.


Um, with respect I think Brit has a point. Perhaps the Building and Architecture forum is a more appropriate forum for this rather esoteric level of discussion?

You view it as esoteric, some as thoughtful, some as misdirected - fine. If that is all you wish to say about it. But I'd like to see you explore this further. I am waiting and eager to respond to that charge of esoteria, if it in fact has any substance.
 
You view it as esoteric, some as thoughtful, some as misdirected - fine. But make your case rather than label it! I am waiting and eager to respond.

Give me a while, I have to find my dictionary and my bong :D
 
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

Archivist interprets my wish for consumers to be more demanding of good design as being about aesthetics only. But I meant the whole shebang, which includes abandoning all kinds of preconceived notions about what things are "supposed" to look like, or how they are "supposed" to work etc. just as designers are supposed to do when they create them. Demand better, in other words, don't just rely on governments to enforce design standards through building review panels in order to weed out the worst. Archivist uses the word "utility" to describe this, and I'm right with him on that point.

A lot of supposedly designed products haven't been thought through very well. For instance, I once caught my fingers in the hinge of a green bin and realized how lethal a weapon those things can be if you're caught off guard. They're semi-sleek, semi-attractive objects, but not enough thought was given to how they actually work - and that's design too. As I said in my second paragraph, design is a process as well as an end product.
 
So what your saying a smart investment would be: buy a cheapish unit at the Star of Downtown East and gut the interior reinstall stunning European (or how about Canadian--it exists!) cabinetry, beautiful one off furnishings, a huge bathroom, gorgeous light fixtures--and sell the unit for a triple?!? That is a well thought out "design." It works!
 
A pic from today, (Thurs, August 2)
starofd.jpg
 

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