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St Clair West

Palma said:
You are crazy. Near what area do you live? West of Weston Rd there is not much there its true. Those homes east of Dufferin to Yonge St are expensive. i wish I could aford to live in that area
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True - there are million+ houses all through that area. And Wychwood is one of the most expensive areas in the whole city. I'm not sure what urbandreamer's smoking but I'd appreciate it if he'd stop bogarting it.
 
Palma said:
. Why not just extend St. Clair at Scarlett west? When you go east of Yonge a few blocks there are all these beautiful homes on St. Clair that continue all the way to Kingston Rd. or the lake almost. Yet west of Yonge, St. Clair is all commercial and then west of those new homes near Gunns, there is nothing but auto shops, etc. Really ugly.
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There's some diversity to the St. Clair streetscape west of Gunns with a few restaurants and neighbourhood-oriented businesses like a barber shop and convenience stores. I like the two colourful Postmodern housing co-ops on the north side around Runnymede. But the auto-related businesses (i.e. garages, dealerships, and gas stations) dominate the streetscape and generally aren't attractive. The side streets, however, are leafy with typically well-maintained houses.
 
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Another article about how not a disaster St Clair is.

http://www.thestar.com/news/transpo...rite-of-passage-for-a-gentrifying-avenue?bn=1

Shrouded in a dusty cloud of controversy from the outset, the St. Clair streetcar’s dedicated lane still draws mixed reviews nearly two years after its completion.

But if the St. Clair streetcar is the disaster being touted by Mayor Rob Ford, there are few current signs of it on the street, or in the statistics.

Condo hoardings and stylish restaurants are elbowing out empty storefronts, suggesting the streetcar right-of-way may have been a rite of passage for St. Clair.

If city council votes as expected Wednesday, in favour of light rail on Sheppard Ave. E., Scarborough will get a version of transit that is superior even to St. Clair, which is significantly improved because it now runs on its own lane, says TTC Service Planning manager Mitch Stambler.

“Industry best-practice LRT, as per Sheppard or Finch, has stops further apart so the light-rail vehicles can really get going. The speed and reliability will be dramatically faster and reliable,” he said.

The 512 streetcar “is better but it’s not as excellent as it could be,” Stambler acknowledges. The TTC still has route-management work to do in terms of preventing short-turns and bunching on St. Clair.

THE ST. CLAIR COMMUTE: TWO STAR REPORTERS SET OUT AT THE ROUTE’S WESTERN END AT THE SAME TIME. HERE’S HOW THE STREETCAR COMPARED WITH THE CAR COMMUTE.

TTC officials have admitted project management on the St. Clair right of way was a painful lesson in how not to build transit. But there have been gains. Round-trip times are down 14 per cent on average.

A midday Saturday trip has been reduced to 56 minutes from 70. Ridership of 32,400 people daily on the 512 streetcar is up 17 per cent in the morning rush — 13 per cent overall since pre-construction days in 2005, Stambler says.

Still, Sutton Group realtor Josie Stern is on the fence about how much the streetcar right-of-way has contributed to higher property values in the area, where housing prices have risen 35 to 40 per cent — “a bit more than the city as a whole.”

The streetcar is just one on a list of neighbourhood improvements. The development of the Wychwood Barns south of St. Clair into a centre for arts and community groups, trendy condos and new restaurants have all added to St. Clair’s cachet.

“The streetcar just adds to the beauty of it, to the upscaleness of it,” said Stern.

Business casualties during the prolonged period of construction between Yonge St. and Keele left a bad taste in the neighbourhood, but some of those businesses might not have survived anyway.

Victor Acappella says his menswear shop has always drawn from outside the neighbourhood and never suffered during the construction.

“(St. Clair) is a neighbourhood that supports retailers if they’re quality retailers. Give (customers) a reason to pull out a credit card because they want to buy something of quality, you’re going to do well. It’s all about giving people what they want, and I think a lot of these retailers unfortunately just don’t get it,” he said.

Kym Klopp, who opened her Earth-friendly store Ecoexistence four years ago on Vaughan Rd., always wanted to be on St. Clair but avoided the street “like the plague” during the construction. Two months ago, however, she made the move. Her business is thriving with walk-in customers, who would never have visited her old location.

Does she think the right-of-way was worth the pain and cost? Is the streetcar the root of St. Clair’s gentrification? “No,” says Klopp, but, “It’s time to move on.”

There is a “disconnect between the experience of the street and the way (people) speak about it,” says St. Clair right-of-way champion and LRT supporter Joe Mihevc.

That’s why the city councillor for St. Paul’s would like a third-party assessment of the streetcar lane’s impacts — benchmarks that could be applied to LRT building on Sheppard, Finch or Eglinton.

The TTC’s Stambler said that study was cut from the TTC’s budget this year but a similar study on Spadina following the construction of its streetcar right-of-way showed businesses did better following the transit improvements.

“Any investment in rail transit conveys to investors the city’s commitment to the community is long-term. There’s no question (St. Clair) is far more beautiful today. It looked tired and worn down,” Stambler said.

The St. Clair improvements, however, are more difficult to discern as the streetcar travels west toward the big-box developments around Keele.

“People don’t want to travel here because they can’t turn left,” said Don Panos, chair of the St. Clair Gardens BIA and owner of Don’s Wholesale Meats.

But he says his end of the street is ripe for development. “We’ve got empty land that is crying for it. We have more potential than a lot of other places. We have to get the planning department on board,” he said.

Domenic Pronesti, general manager of Ferro, a restaurant fixture on St. Clair, says the street is becoming a destination dining zone in spite of the streetcar right-of way, not because of it.

It can take half an hour to get under the bridge at Old Weston Rd., where, thanks to the right-of-way, there’s now only one car lane each way, he said. Councillor Cesar Palacio recently called for the TTC and city to consider some traffic remediation.

“It’s very slow-moving,” Pronesti said. “It’s not the same fast route it used to be.”

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HOW ST. CLAIR ADDED UP

TTC Service Planning manager Mitch Stambler says the financial facts of the St. Clair streetcar right-of-way have been misrepresented.

The amount spent on the project was almost exactly the $65 million specified in the environmental studies for tracks, platforms and traffic signals.

But costs crept up as the years passed, from additions requested by councillors and the community, Stambler said.

Among the additional costs:

• $15 million in construction delays

• $15 million in hydro undergrounding

• $11.5 million in water main and service upgrades and replacements

• $2 million for sidewalk reconstruction

• $5 million for mid-block street repaving

• $7.5 million in upgraded streetlights

• $5 million in additional platforms requested by the community, the redesign of Gunn's loop where the cars turn, and audible pedestrian signals at intersections

• $3 million in court costs
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Ice_Burn said:
True - there are million+ houses all through that area. And Wychwood is one of the most expensive areas in the whole city. I'm not sure what urbandreamer's smoking but I'd appreciate it if he'd stop bogarting it.
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Don't worry about Urbandreamer. He hates everything about Toronto. All the neighborhoods, the condos, the shops. One could assume he's a grumpy old man from Barrie.
 
It'll be interesting to see what comes of this. There are a few small boutiques and stuff in that area, but personally I'd like to see more investment closer to my area (Dufferin) where there are still a few vacants and failed businesses.

In the next few weeks, inside Loblaws on the upper coffee deck on St. Clair West, Wychwood Heights BIA will be speaking with local merchants, stakeholders and residents, asking how the neighbourhood can attract new business and what improvements to the streetscape they’d like to see.

It’s all part of a new marketing plan for the area. The BIA has just hired a local marketing firm (whose name can’t be revealed as contract negotiations are still taking place) to lead a branding charge to help re-build St. Clair West’s image from the ground up.

Jennifer Lourenco, who has run K-9 Design with husband Norm on St. Clair West since 1998, is the BIA’s vice-chair and on the marketing sub-committee. She says empty stores on the strip will get eventually get filled.

“The time is right for a change. It's a long-term multi-year approach. We want to get all the retail space completely occupied,” she said. “ It takes a long time to nurture, but we hope to gentrify the retail strip which will change the current perception.”

Since 2010, bids to marketing companies were made by the BIA. In that time, 20 agencies pitched them proposals. The BIA short-listed the final three companies and on March 29 selected the marketing company that will help steer St. Clair into an urban renaissance.

While the marketing plan is still yet to be finalized, the BIA has already laid out plans of its own to boost beautification by installing 20 new park benches along the strip within the next 12 months. They also intend on setting up “Live.Shop.Love.St.Clair West” banners in storefront windows from the Loblaws at Bathurst to Christie, and will introduce more greenery and flower beds on the sidewalk as they’ve done in previous years.

“Retail will have to supply residents who are buying these condos," Lourenco says of the RISE and Rushton condo developments already underway in the intersection. "It's never going to be a Yorkville, but you can definitely expect a smattering of boutiques and stores.”

A handful of city neighbourhoods have also adopted a branding approach to help change its perception, including Liberty Village, Corso Italia and the Distillery District, which Lourenco recognizes as “nothing new.”

“Change is never easy. One of the reasons we bought our business and property was because there was construction in the neighbourhood. The street car was there,” she said. “Change was coming, and, change is coming for St. Clair West. "
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Has anyone noticed the streetcar running a little slower than usual? Maybe it's just me, but the actual speed of the car seems to have decreased.
 
I take the streetcar everyday to work.

Positives:
Easy breezy to the subway
Since I'm at the end of the stop, I can get a seat and relax
Many streetcars, so waiting time is minimum

Negatives:
Despite the right of way, IT'S STILL TOO SLOW
Reasons for it too slow? TTC drivers created traffic themselves (no surprise there with the usual incompetent of TTC drivers). They don't come but once they do, they come at the same time, thus, the traffic.
When they started this project, can't believe they didn't get rid of some of the useless stops such as Stockyards stop, and the one next to the subway. There are simply WAY TOO MANY stops, thus, it slows down the whole trip to the subway

In conclusion, if you have lots of time, it's great to take it cause it's relaxing and easy. If you are in a rush, forget about it. From the last stop to the subway can take more than 30 minutes, which is WAY TOO LONG.
 
Ice_Burn said:
Has anyone noticed the streetcar running a little slower than usual? Maybe it's just me, but the actual speed of the car seems to have decreased.
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It's more about the drivers. Some are fast...some are very stalling...
 
Tbh I agree with your analysis. I feel like St. Clair would operate much more efficiently with longer vehicles and all door loading. I wouldn't take away any stops though.
 
From my experience, using a combination of University-Spadina line subway and the 512 streetcar takes just 5-10 minutes more in the evenings than using the University-Spadina line, Bloor-Danforth line, and then a bus route north to St. Clair. During the day, though, it can take 20-25 minutes more. The problem obviously is the number of stops, the signal priority given to left turning private vehicles at every intersection and slow boarding at stops. Service, however, is now vastly better on the 512 than it was before the ROW.
 
Too many stops and especially the stop is not before the traffic lights. That means you get two stops, then lights, then the stop. TOO TOO much. I just don't understand why they need the stop right before it goes inside the station. I mean, there's another stop at at the new condo already. Are you telling me those people can't walk a block?

I find the worst section is from Christie to the subway, that short portion takes as much time as the end stop to Christie.
 
jett said:
Too many stops and especially the stop is not before the traffic lights. That means you get two stops, then lights, then the stop. TOO TOO much. I just don't understand why they need the stop right before it goes inside the station. I mean, there's another stop at at the new condo already. Are you telling me those people can't walk a block?

I find the worst section is from Christie to the subway, that short portion takes as much time as the end stop to Christie.
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I'll second that. Every morning as I am driving my son to school I need to make a decision whether to proceed along St. Clair west of Christie or go south along Christie. Each time I proceed to continue along St. Clair I regret it and finally go south on Vaughan.
 
the TTC knows that the stop spacing in that section is terrible, however they cannot start construction up there right now like they should to remove them, because of the whole "Disaster" thing, so they will probably wait until the new streetcars are ready and already in use on Spadina in full before doing anything; letting it blow over a little.

my vote: get rid of Bathurst & Wychwood. To accomodate, just announce Vaughan Rd stop as "Vaughan Rd and Bathurst, Bathurst Street stop".
 
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I live on St Clair and from my experience it's not the stop spacing, but rather the amount of time each vehicle remains at a stop that slows down the streetcars. One of the biggest causes of delay in my opinion is the fact that there are far too many streetcars on the route during rush that slow the line down nearly to a halt. Maybe less stops would help tiny bit, but I don't think it would be significant.

The new streetcars will improve efficiency far more than removing stops would.
 
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