kEiThZ
Superstar
Sherway's in Mississauga? Since when?
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Smitherman's Transit plan
- Thread starter SimonP
- Start date
Sherway's in Mississauga? Since when?
kEiThZ
Superstar
See what Miller started? Had he kept the focus on the core, his successors would have followed suit. Now there's so much pressure not to touch transit projects in the burbs.
LowerBay
Active Member
The downtown crowd is getting exactly what they deserve. They can't say, "we want new downtown subways", and "but don't touch our quaint streetcars". If a candidate came out and said that they would abandon the downtown streetcar network and divert that money towards a DRL, the idea wouldn't fly.
I read so many of these posts ... "oh we can't put the DRL under King or Queen because that would kill the streetcar route, so let's put it under Wellington, Adelaide, or Richmond". It just makes me want to vomit.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Why do you have to take the subway up? Is there really that much ridership on that 1.7km? If the SELRT is staying, then you might as well build a spur on McCowan to have branched SELRT service to STC.
It's really not that important. It's a nice to have. Not essential. To start with, anybody who's bound for the North York would have found the current setup ridiculous. Travel all the way to Sheppard and Progress to get to go westbound after that? And if there was no SLRT to Malvern, what would happen? Simply get off from any of the STC bound buses at Sheppard and go west.
In the end, a SELRT spur would be best.
kEiThZ
Superstar
To me Smitherman's promises are obvious. The SRT is just not popular in Scarborough. And regardless of what Miller or any LRT fan says, Scarborough residents resent that Kennedy transfer. They'll vote in droves for any candidate who promises to get rid of the transfer.
I would imagine that the Sherway extension is just as popular in South Etobicoke.
Similiarly, I see Sheppard West as a "common sense" idea. It'll stop it from being a stubway. And actually make the line useful.
Ultimately though they are all popular ideas that actually will give many Torontonians what they want.
I am surprised though, that he didn't do anything on Yonge.
I would imagine that the Sherway extension is just as popular in South Etobicoke.
Similiarly, I see Sheppard West as a "common sense" idea. It'll stop it from being a stubway. And actually make the line useful.
Ultimately though they are all popular ideas that actually will give many Torontonians what they want.
I am surprised though, that he didn't do anything on Yonge.
nfitz
Superstar
That would be an alternate - though operationally more difficult, as you'd potentially have to change twice, or run cars down McCowan coming from both Don Mills and Markham Road.
But Smitherman hasn't even suggested that either!
nfitz
Superstar
He is running for mayor of Toronto - not of the GTA. He fully knows that if Yonge extension is to be built, it won't be because Toronto is pushing it ... so why should Toronto fund it? Though that's the same reason he shouldn't be spending $1-billion+ to build a subway to near the Mississauga border.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
First, cut your loses and cancel the Sheppard West streetcar. Even if there are some penalties just pay them but there could be no financial problems if the signed companies are guaranteed the same size contracts but in another location. Use those saved funds to build thru elevation the Sheppard ext to STC and West to Downsview. Here's the kicker............cancel the Finch Line and INTERLINE the Sheppard & Spadina subways from Downsview to Finch and then spend the money saved by cancelling Finch for contiuation of the Sheppard/Finch Line as far west as the funds will take you.
Second, cancel the BD extension to STC. It is a good idea over the long term but in the mean time they still have rapid transit. They can lease any required vehicles past 2015 from Vancouver.
Third, take that saved money from not extending the BD line and use it for the beginnings of a DRL from roughly Pape to Dundas West {using the rail ROW} and joinin them by Queen NOT King.
Forth, cancel Eglinton LRT. No lines should be built that are not 100% grade separated. Anything that is not completely grade separated is improved transit service but not mass/rapid. Use the money for the current Eglinton and build the equavilant amount of funds for total grade separation. If that means you get a couple km less of rapid/mass transit then so be it.
Fifth, using rail corridors and elevation on street mediens must be the norm outside the original City of Toronto boundary. Tunneling should only be done where absolutely necessary.
Sixth, the costs must be reasonable and comparable. $310/million per km like the Spadina ext is obscene. No elevated portion should be more than $150 million per km and no tunnel for over $225.
Seventh, make it a true mass/rapid transit system which means larger station spacings. Anything north of Eglinton should have an average spacing of about 1.25 to 1.5 km depending on the area. Eglinton could be more in the line of averaging 1 km. This is money for mass/rapid transit so if somebody bitches about having to walk a couple extra blocks and tell them to take the bus.
Eighth, all approved lines must be able to be automated to save money on long term operating costs and yes, that means basically writing off Light Rail. SkyTrain can work well but it expensive and does have problems with Toronto winters but is still a viable option. Anyway you cut it that means Subway, SkyTrain, or Monorail.
Toronto has decades of lost time to make up for. StatsCan states that by 2031 CMA Toronto will have 9.7 million. Even if Toronto adds 100km of sub/Sky/Mon it will still have relatively small system by any world comparison including many developing countries.
Second, cancel the BD extension to STC. It is a good idea over the long term but in the mean time they still have rapid transit. They can lease any required vehicles past 2015 from Vancouver.
Third, take that saved money from not extending the BD line and use it for the beginnings of a DRL from roughly Pape to Dundas West {using the rail ROW} and joinin them by Queen NOT King.
Forth, cancel Eglinton LRT. No lines should be built that are not 100% grade separated. Anything that is not completely grade separated is improved transit service but not mass/rapid. Use the money for the current Eglinton and build the equavilant amount of funds for total grade separation. If that means you get a couple km less of rapid/mass transit then so be it.
Fifth, using rail corridors and elevation on street mediens must be the norm outside the original City of Toronto boundary. Tunneling should only be done where absolutely necessary.
Sixth, the costs must be reasonable and comparable. $310/million per km like the Spadina ext is obscene. No elevated portion should be more than $150 million per km and no tunnel for over $225.
Seventh, make it a true mass/rapid transit system which means larger station spacings. Anything north of Eglinton should have an average spacing of about 1.25 to 1.5 km depending on the area. Eglinton could be more in the line of averaging 1 km. This is money for mass/rapid transit so if somebody bitches about having to walk a couple extra blocks and tell them to take the bus.
Eighth, all approved lines must be able to be automated to save money on long term operating costs and yes, that means basically writing off Light Rail. SkyTrain can work well but it expensive and does have problems with Toronto winters but is still a viable option. Anyway you cut it that means Subway, SkyTrain, or Monorail.
Toronto has decades of lost time to make up for. StatsCan states that by 2031 CMA Toronto will have 9.7 million. Even if Toronto adds 100km of sub/Sky/Mon it will still have relatively small system by any world comparison including many developing countries.
Dan416
Senior Member
Everyone on this board is so utterly against the subway extension to Sherway JUST BECAUSE IT'S "NEAR" Mississauga. Not because it goes to Mississauga. Because it's NEAR Mississauga. Dimwitted 416 trolls.
Parts of Smitherman's plan I like: extending Bloor (proposed by SOS), extending Sheppard West (proposed by SOS), replacing the SRT with a subway (proposed by SOS), tunneling more of Eglinton (a good thing for sure). What I don't like? The SRT replacement following the SRT route. Sheppard East LRT staying. No DRL.
PS Anyone who says DRL is a must and supports TC must realize that those two positions aren't mutually compatible in a zero-sum game.
Parts of Smitherman's plan I like: extending Bloor (proposed by SOS), extending Sheppard West (proposed by SOS), replacing the SRT with a subway (proposed by SOS), tunneling more of Eglinton (a good thing for sure). What I don't like? The SRT replacement following the SRT route. Sheppard East LRT staying. No DRL.
PS Anyone who says DRL is a must and supports TC must realize that those two positions aren't mutually compatible in a zero-sum game.
kettal
Banned
Why is it a zero sum game now? Both are needed.
kettal
Banned
Miller didn't start this, Harris did when he amalgamated Toronto. Any mayor has to appeal to the suburbs to be elected, and suburbs are not going to favour the DRL as a priority when they don't even have rt near them. It's a means to an end, due to the political situation.
I agree with you, that a sheppard spur to STC is the better option in that area.
The Mad Navigator
Banned
You make zero sense.
Rainforest
Senior Member
I don't see why DRL and downtown streetcars must be mutually exclusive. Downtown streetcars with very frequent stops are local service, just like buses on other streets, except they do not produce exhaust. DRL would be moslty for long-range trips.
Rainforest
Senior Member
http://www.georgesmitherman.com/issues/116-georges-plan-to-get-toronto-moving.html
Noticed two interesting points reading the fine print:
"champion the actual build of the Rail Link from Union Station to Pearson Airport and insist that this line be prioritized for electrification" - this is absent from the map, but present in the fine print.
"Replace Scarborough RT with a Subway past Scarborough Town Centre" - the "past" part is missing from the map, but mentioned in the description.
IMO, it makes perfect sense to extend the subway by 1.7 km and connect to SELRT.
Noticed two interesting points reading the fine print:
"champion the actual build of the Rail Link from Union Station to Pearson Airport and insist that this line be prioritized for electrification" - this is absent from the map, but present in the fine print.
"Replace Scarborough RT with a Subway past Scarborough Town Centre" - the "past" part is missing from the map, but mentioned in the description.
IMO, it makes perfect sense to extend the subway by 1.7 km and connect to SELRT.
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M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Smitherman’s plan simply a transit lover’s fantasy
May. 28, 2010
Marcus Gee
Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...mply-a-transit-lovers-fantasy/article1585411/
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George Smitherman says on his website that city hall cannot “keep spending and expanding no matter what the cost.†Instead, the city needs to “fit our budgets to our means.†On Friday, the very same George Smitherman announced a plan to spend $7-billion on new transit lines – with barely a hint of how he would pay for it. The Smitherman plan, released at a slickly organized downtown fundraiser for his mayoral bid, is a transit lover’s fantasy. Between now and 2020, he would do everything from building a new Sheppard West subway to extending the Bloor subway line to Sherway Gardens to fast-tracking the extension of the Spadina subway to York University.
Seven billion is a lot of money for a city with an annual operating budget of $9.2-billion. Where on earth would a city with chronic money problems find that kind of cash? Well, simple: Mr. Smitherman’s Toronto would take out a loan. Why didn’t anybody else think of that? Mr. Smitherman says he would contract with private companies to build the transit lines, leaving the city to pay for them “over time.†“This model,†he patiently explains, “is most similar to a mortgage model used by many of us to achieve the joys of home ownership before we have all of the money to pay for the full purchase price.â€
But what would it do to a city that already carries a debt of $2.5-billion to add nearly three times as much to the total? Toronto already pays out about $450-million a year to service its existing debt. Piling on billions more would add hundreds of millions to the interest we pay, stealing resources away from city services. What is worse is that Mr. Smitherman seems to have no idea how the city would pay off this massive transit loan. Others have proposed to finance transit expansion by imposing road tolls (Sarah Thomson) or selling Toronto Hydro (Rocco Rossi). Mr. Smitherman has ruled out both.
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May. 28, 2010
Marcus Gee
Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...mply-a-transit-lovers-fantasy/article1585411/
##################################
George Smitherman says on his website that city hall cannot “keep spending and expanding no matter what the cost.†Instead, the city needs to “fit our budgets to our means.†On Friday, the very same George Smitherman announced a plan to spend $7-billion on new transit lines – with barely a hint of how he would pay for it. The Smitherman plan, released at a slickly organized downtown fundraiser for his mayoral bid, is a transit lover’s fantasy. Between now and 2020, he would do everything from building a new Sheppard West subway to extending the Bloor subway line to Sherway Gardens to fast-tracking the extension of the Spadina subway to York University.
Seven billion is a lot of money for a city with an annual operating budget of $9.2-billion. Where on earth would a city with chronic money problems find that kind of cash? Well, simple: Mr. Smitherman’s Toronto would take out a loan. Why didn’t anybody else think of that? Mr. Smitherman says he would contract with private companies to build the transit lines, leaving the city to pay for them “over time.†“This model,†he patiently explains, “is most similar to a mortgage model used by many of us to achieve the joys of home ownership before we have all of the money to pay for the full purchase price.â€
But what would it do to a city that already carries a debt of $2.5-billion to add nearly three times as much to the total? Toronto already pays out about $450-million a year to service its existing debt. Piling on billions more would add hundreds of millions to the interest we pay, stealing resources away from city services. What is worse is that Mr. Smitherman seems to have no idea how the city would pay off this massive transit loan. Others have proposed to finance transit expansion by imposing road tolls (Sarah Thomson) or selling Toronto Hydro (Rocco Rossi). Mr. Smitherman has ruled out both.
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