News   Jul 12, 2024
 1K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
 899     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
 355     0 

SmartTrack (Proposed)

Short reply:
- Offpeak bilevels are usually more than half empty. Single levels or EMUs can be more economical.
- peak period does not have to discontinue bilevels
- Georgetown corridor has enough passong track for expresses, Stoufville will be tripletracked in sections (passing trackage)

i still think better than 50 percent chance at least one route will use EMUs, one way or another. Not all, mind you.
 
I think this is a case where the truth will reside in the depths of some analyst's spreadsheet, since the variables that define 'more economical' are probably complex and depend a lot on what assumptions are use for the values in these.....interest rates, cost of capital, differences in operating costs, etc, etc Tweak some of these assumptions (remember that the value that the professional analyst selects may differ from what we observers believe is valid.... this is what drives the pro's crazy when they read our comments) and the whole calculation shifts.

I agree that using 12-car bilevel trains for off peak service is likely uneconomical. But buying a redundant fleet of single level equipment to use off-peak, while the bilevels sit idle, is equally uneconomical. So the obvious default is to use as much of the equipment we already have (ie bilevels) in the way that makes best economic sense. If we run out of bilevels, or if they start wearing out, then yes we can look at what the right fleet mix will be.... bearing in mind that 'mixed fleet' may need some spreadsheet work to compare against 'standard single car fleet'.

In short - it's a valid thing to debate, but let's not take a preferred solution and retrofit to the problem. The numbers will fall out where they may.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
"To me the most likely Smart track plan would be to run it as a separate service, with its own trains and stations, GO trains will stop at the current stations and Smart track trains will stop at the infill stations and the current GO train stations. I'm not sure if there would be enough space everywhere for the extra tracks needed to let GO trains pass the slower Smart track trains. They will be slower because they stop more often."

Personally I think SmartTrack will just be rolled into GO RER for the Kitchener and Stouffville line with a few more stations and better fare integration. Basically it will be a combination of the 15 minute electrified service from Bramela to Unionville, with additional stops as illustrated in SmartTrack plus maybe 1 additional one at Woodbine Race Track if they do expand the casino. I believe Tory will leave the airport spur alone if it does cost $4-5 billion. He doesn't want to raise taxes, and even if he finds the money, he will probably use it on more pressing projects like the DRL or Gardinener.
 
Finally, there is zero chance GO will switch platform heights, the cost is far to much for to little gain. As i hope i have convinced you, single level trains can't help GO. So if we are stuck using bi-level, they will have longer dwell times due to their nature. Changing the platform heights wont help them unload faster.
I agree that using 12-car bilevel trains for off peak service is likely uneconomical. But buying a redundant fleet of single level equipment to use off-peak, while the bilevels sit idle, is equally uneconomical.

TL;DR:
- Locomotive-pulled BiLevels do accelerate faster, but not as fast as EMUs
- Unpowered BiLevels can be a waste of corridor capacity on UPX trackage as they can't run tight headways ahead/behind UPX EMUs
- the fleet is not redundant.
- we'll need all the bilevels (and upcoming) and all the RER EMU trains operating concurrently (at peak).
- fleet requirement is beyond even BiLevel coaches/cabs on order;
- 15-min AD2W (All Day 2-Way) consumes more trains than 15-min peak-only-direction.
- Assign the BiLevels for Lakeshore RER, and EMUs for Kitchener-Stoufville RER. Lakeshore bidirectional 15-min AD2W consume all the new coaches (and then some); requiring fleet expansion for 15-min AD2W elsewhere.
- so many planned services on Kitchener corridor; not enough corridor capacity if using BiLevels for 15-min allstop RER service.
- tight spacing of GO RER stops (if this SmartTrack element is kept) is inefficient even with electric locomotives; need EMUs;
- Multiple research papers show high platforms DO shorten dwell times. France uses short subway-style dwell times with their lines using high-platform EMU RER trains (both single and double deck).
- If EMU forces platform height change, ONLY SEVEN pre-existing GO stations (plus a platform or two at Union) require platform height upgrades.
- better ability to tightly slot many similiar-service trains between UPX trains (e.g. EMU behind EMU);
- may not be able to reliably run Barrie/Kitchener/UPX/expresses concurrently in _both_ directions at high-frequencies.

Long Reply:

In the proposed service plan, there's hourly allday service to many endpoints while the RER section is 15 minutes. This suggests they would run the bilevels all day long, but going express past many RER stations. And that not all RER trains would remain permanently bilevels. To take full advantage of electrification, you'd want to plan to involve EMUs for faster acceleration for high frequency service in station-dense routes (e.g. SmartTrack infill stations). The BiLevels may end up not being economical (even for peak period service) when using denser station spacing, ala Kitchener-Stoufville RER with the SmartTrack element of triple the number of stops.

Why bother electrifying these lines if you can't take advantage of all the advantages of EMUs, and wasting corridor capacity because of larger headways between trains because of slower acceleration? Although electric locomotives can accelerate the BiLevels faster, it may not mathematically be enough for the 15-minute goal (which may be as lower like 5-7 minute during peak) on 5 lines. Running half as many bilevels at larger headways, or twice as many EMUs at shorter headways, the ability to slot a different 15-minute service between UPX trains is possible with EMUs but will not be possible with BiLevels!

With 15-minute (and better) RER on Kitchener and Barrie, along with UPX, they need to make very efficient use of the corridor and the bottlenecks it entails, and to pull off slotting trains (or two or three) between trains (3.75-min headways, 5-min headways, 7.5-min headways), you need to match up the acceleration and speed profiles of the trainsets much better. A BiLevel can't easily squeeze between UPX trains and stop at the same stations, but an EMU or two could easily do so (with short dwell times).

Headways are going to dramatically shorten in the RER era, and I a long BiLevels can be a headway limiting factor. Shorter headways than today, yes, but not as short headways that EMUs can achieve (and compatibility with simultaneous same-track headway with UPX, would be a major deciding factor on whether to use EMUs).

By sheer corridor capacity reasons, as they may not be able to reliably pull off reliable 15-min (and better) service bidirectionally on 3 different lines (Barrie RER, Kitchener RER, UPX) while simultaneously with passing BiLevel express trains coming from beyond Bramalea (on Kitchener) and beyond Aurora (on Barrie). Mathematically it's doable with EMUs by precedent (e.g. France which has the ability to run 3-minute headways even with TGV high speed trains), but I'm not 100% sure we could do it running only unpowered BiLevels for all of the non-UPX services.

Now throw in Ontario's future HSR (whose construction could very well begin by the late 2020s or during 2030s) if these rail-happy governments continue), and if we're still running BiLevels in this specific corridor, there's no room to let these HSR trains pass (conceivably, the beyond-Brampton BiLevel express trains would be replaced by all day HSR trains as the beyond-Brampton commuter service, as it's likely HSR would de-facto be assigned to Metrolinx, and previous media mentions of $10 frequent-commuter high speed train fares, is highly suggestive of Ontario's HSR initiative being a commuter HSR). Since GO RER is for around mid-2020s. UPX is a DMU and will eventually be EMU. To run subway-tight headways behind EMUs you must run other EMUs. Not considering EMUs would be a very grave corridor-capacity-wasting mistake on the Kitchener corridor, e.g. being incompatible with running tight headways ahead/behind UPX trains....

Yes, it requires expensive decisions (platform compatibility, extra stations, new trainsets, etc)... But we still need each and every one of the Bombardier BiLevels to improve service in the rest of the corridors.

It goes without saying we'll see at least a large number of electric locomotives pulling Bombardier BiLevels. They are great coaches for what they were designed for, and popular by other commuter services. But RER demands a fleet expansion beyond even the coaches/cabs on order, and the corridor capacity considerations such as tighter headways (including on trackage used by UPX), so at least one RER route would be a shoo-in for EMUs. And Metrolinx did use the phrase "diversified fleet" at least a couple times.

Another option is we discontinue the UPX service in favour of a GO RER service with a Woodbine Racetrack stop (using UPX as a short-trip express). But UPX is likely here to stay, considering recent mathematics show that UPX easily breaks even in the worst case scenario and becomes profitable for Metrolinx in the base case scenario (see math found in testy debate with k10ery) -- the numbers are potentially better I than expected as evidence was found that operating cost included amortization (amortization explaining a big difference between a sub-$20M annual operating cost quote -- profitable on UPX being less than 20% full -- and the quoted $70M annual operating cost quote -- profitable on UPX being 38% full -- and history on captive airport audience with worse/expensive options do profitably take similar expensive airport trains in Hong Kong/Tokyo/London, and the economics of UPX is actually stronger than London, UK being there a cheap subway alternative there but we only have an even slower, cheap bus alternative). It smells strongly like Metrolinx may end up having a permanent perpetual $50M+ annual profit with UPX, after capital cost are fully paid -- an extra fund source that Metrolinx would quickly get addicted to. So it is possible that the UPX train is here to stay, to self-fund other Metrolinx shortfalls -- although it would not be used as such, observe that $500M of UPX profit in 10 years can pay for platform height upgrades of seven GO stations, plus Union, that are on the SmartTrack route. (There are only seven pre-existing GO stations, that would require a platform height upgrade, in order to be compatible with a very good corridor-capacity-maximizing EMU .... the rest of the SmartTrack infills would be brand new stations). Even if UPX only broke even and its financials had nothing to do with SmartTrack platform height, UPX still is a MU (DMU becoming EMU) that pretty much demands good train performance profiles (acceleration/braking) to slot trains reasonably densely between UPX trains.

Now we're forced to find ways to slot more and more trains ahead/behind UPX trains, or use faster accelerating allstop trains with short dwell times to slot more trains between UPX trains. Faster services attract more ridership and pays for farebox more quickly, if SmartTrack uses a low fare ($3) as Tory wants, it needs high throughput and fast allstop speed to keep ridership high to compensate for the low price, and that pretty much literally demands EMUs, and many EMUs are higher platform. As you can see, not much platform-height-retrofitting is required (only seven GO stations, and one or two platforms at Union). We might end up using low-floor EMUs (which severely limits our options), or having a vendor design a brand new EMU for Metrolinx (like our 1979 coach was custom designed for GO), or deciding to raise the height of the platforms (which greatly widens our choice of EMUs), but any of these would still make the Georgetown corridor service plan achievable rather than impossible.

Lakeshore 15-min (and better during peak) service can easily consume a large number of Kitchener BiLevels -- requiring a new set of coaches to run 15-min (and better) Kitchener/Stoufville RER all day. Why not make the Kitchener allstop being EMU's to guarantee we can still run 15-min (and better) services on 3 different lines while simultaneously running express services at the same time? There is already corridor capacity on Lakeshore to handle 7.5-minute bilevels (like they do for Lakeshore West today at peak 4:45-5:45, 8 trains) and that corridor only requires schedule precision on one or two routes (Lakeshore allstops and Lakeshore expresses), with occasional freight trains and deadheading-to-maintenance trains being lower schedule priority. But Georgetown/Kitchener corridor will handle four or five distinct service profiles (UPX, Kitchener RER, Kitchener express, Barrie RER, Barrie express, and eventually future HSR), all at pretty decent frequencies, both directions. How are you going to pull this off with tight headways with just 100% slower-locomotive-accelerating bilevels whose acceleration profile does not overlap well with UPX? Why not squeeze a few extra trains between UPX trains, without risking UPX service too much?

For these reasons, maximizing corridor capacity, I predict EMUs are the RER choice on the Kitchener corridor, whether it be GO RER or SmartTrack. Better than 50-50 chance. Unless we dramatically downgrade GO RER plans

Corollary: Indirectly, the EMU decision forces the Great Platform Height Debate
 
Last edited:
Personally I think SmartTrack will just be rolled into GO RER for the Kitchener and Stouffville line with a few more stations and better fare integration. Basically it will be a combination of the 15 minute electrified service from Bramela to Unionville, with additional stops as illustrated in SmartTrack plus maybe 1 additional one at Woodbine Race Track if they do expand the casino. I believe Tory will leave the airport spur alone if it does cost $4-5 billion. He doesn't want to raise taxes, and even if he finds the money, he will probably use it on more pressing projects like the DRL or Gardinener.

It's pretty clear that's all "SmartTrack" will be, based on what Metrolinx has said. GO RER, hopefully with some extra stops and fares such that it's viable to use it for local travel.
 
It's pretty clear that's all "SmartTrack" will be, based on what Metrolinx has said. GO RER, hopefully with some extra stops and fares such that it's viable to use it for local travel.

If "that's all" Smart track will be, we should take it happily. There was no indication that Metrolinx was thinking about ttc fare integration or much about infill stations until Tory, Layton, and others forced them to. With the Smattrack proposal, Toronto has a real seat at the planning table, at last.
 
If "that's all" Smart track will be, we should take it happily. There was no indication that Metrolinx was thinking about ttc fare integration or much about infill stations until Tory, Layton, and others forced them to. With the Smattrack proposal, Toronto has a real seat at the planning table, at last.

I am happy. I'll be happy as long as the fares are such that I can affordably and easily switch between RER lines and the TTC as part of a trip.

If I can take the subway to Union station, then transfer to a frequent RER line to get to Liberty Village or a new Spadina/Bathurst stop I'll be happy.

Or if someone who lives in Etobicoke can take the Eg West bus to Mt Dennis station and take the Georgetown RER line for a fast ride downtown. Or if someone in Agincourt can take the Sheppard bus to the Agincourt GO station, then take Stouffville RER line downtown.
 
If "that's all" Smart track will be, we should take it happily. There was no indication that Metrolinx was thinking about ttc fare integration or much about infill stations until Tory, Layton, and others forced them to. With the Smattrack proposal, Toronto has a real seat at the planning table, at last.

Metrolinx has discussed both infill stations (7 or 8 across the city) and fare integration long before the election. In fact, first time I heard GO talk about St. Clair/Eglinton/Lawrence being interesting for stops on the Barrie Line was during the St. Clair EA (2005?).

A co-operative mayor will make it far more likely to occur than a former hostile mayor, particularly if funding is kicked in. I suspect a GO RER 416 fare will be lower than today's GO fares but still a premium over standard TTC fare; probably somewhere between the TTC standard and express fare. Either that or Toronto gets a zoned system again (fare by distance implemented via a couple hundred zones).
 
Last edited:
Personally I think SmartTrack will just be rolled into GO RER for the Kitchener and Stouffville line with a few more stations and better fare integration. Basically it will be a combination of the 15 minute electrified service from Bramela to Unionville, with additional stops as illustrated in SmartTrack plus maybe 1 additional one at Woodbine Race Track if they do expand the casino. I believe Tory will leave the airport spur alone if it does cost $4-5 billion. He doesn't want to raise taxes, and even if he finds the money, he will probably use it on more pressing projects like the DRL or Gardinener.
To be honest, Smarttrack is essentially GO RER and that has been the case ever since it's conception. SmartTrack=GO RER +Infill Stations

I honestly don't see how this plan has ever gained traction in the first place, and the province was probably ecstatic the moment Tory was elected because they knew they wouldn't have to put any funding towards it, and the DRL would ultimately die off. The only thing this plan has done is put more pressure on the province to implement RER, and killed off the DRL. Tory would have been better off pressuring the province to add stations to GO RER lines (aka as was done with UPX) instead of wasting 4 years "developing" this non-sense.
 
Metrolinx has discussed both infill stations (7 or 8 across the city) and fare integration long before the election. In fact, first time I heard GO talk about St. Clair/Eglinton/Lawrence being interesting for stops on the Barrie Line was during the St. Clair EA (2005?).

A co-operative mayor will make it far more likely to occur than a former hostile mayor, particularly if funding is kicked in. I suspect a GO RER 416 fare will be lower than today's GO fares but still a premium over standard TTC fare; probably somewhere between the TTC standard and express fare. Either that or Toronto gets a zoned system again (fare by distance implemented via a couple hundred zones).

Well ok I exaggerated to say they were not thinking about fare integration and infill stations. But I really do not think they have been a priority. On the current Metrolinx RER webpages, there is no discussion of either issue whatsoever - though of course lots of discussion of how the existing network will become faster and more convenient (for suburban residents).
 
the DRL would ultimately die off. The only thing this plan has done is put more pressure on the province to implement RER, and killed off the DRL. Tory would have been better off pressuring the province to add stations to GO RER lines (aka as was done with UPX) instead of wasting 4 years "developing" this non-sense.

I don't think the DRL will completely die off. Looking at the proposed Smart Track maps, I see it as equivalent to the DRL. It may not be an underground subway, but any transit expansion is better than no transit expansion. Both Smart Track and DRL have a similar purpose, to relief congestion on the Yonge-University Loop. The only difference is Smart Track will cover a wider area of Toronto and terminates in both Markham and Mississauga, where as the DRL will only cover the Downtown core and up to Eglinton Ave, via Pape Ave Corridor.

If anything, I think the DRL will be delayed for atleast another decade.
 
... Looking at the proposed Smart Track maps, I see it as equivalent to the DRL. ... Both Smart Track and DRL have a similar purpose, to relief congestion on the Yonge-University Loop.
SmartTrack provides little to almost no relief of Yonge-University and particular Yonge-Bloor. It's moving people from too far east, to to far south. Most people boarding the subway at Kennedy station are not heading to Union Station.
 
The Sydney CityRail trains are made to be not too high where you have to step down to the lower level like stepping up to the upper level which makes for less taller tunneling.
 
Metrolinx has discussed both infill stations (7 or 8 across the city) and fare integration long before the election. In fact, first time I heard GO talk about St. Clair/Eglinton/Lawrence being interesting for stops on the Barrie Line was during the St. Clair EA (2005?).

A co-operative mayor will make it far more likely to occur than a former hostile mayor, particularly if funding is kicked in. I suspect a GO RER 416 fare will be lower than today's GO fares but still a premium over standard TTC fare; probably somewhere between the TTC standard and express fare. Either that or Toronto gets a zoned system again (fare by distance implemented via a couple hundred zones).

Wrong. Stop it.

Metrolinx discussed SOME infill stations like St.Clair, but show me a single EA or even a plan, memo before Smarttrack that discussed a Liberty Village, Gerrard, Unilever, Queen, and all the stops on the Stouffville line.

Metrolinx discussed fare integration, the mayor wants complete TTC fare for the "smarttrack" portion. That is, not a single penny more to ride GO RER within the portion that was designated Smarttrack.

Whether we will get either of these is still to be seen, but please don't pretend that Metrolinx had either of these plans all along. Leave that kind of rhetoric to the sore losers of the Chow camp.
 
Wrong. Stop it.

Metrolinx discussed SOME infill stations like St.Clair, but show me a single EA or even a plan, memo before Smarttrack that discussed a Liberty Village, Gerrard, Unilever, Queen, and all the stops on the Stouffville line.

Metrolinx discussed fare integration, the mayor wants complete TTC fare for the "smarttrack" portion. That is, not a single penny more to ride GO RER within the portion that was designated Smarttrack.

Whether we will get either of these is still to be seen, but please don't pretend that Metrolinx had either of these plans all along. Leave that kind of rhetoric to the sore losers of the Chow camp.

I should be the last one to say it! But that seems a bit harsh.

There is not much point in starting an EA for new stations until electrification is a done deal, and until the vehicle choice has been made. For example, if the system will continue to run on 12 car bilevels, then (GO says) a Kitchener line station at Liberty or King is impossible.

Plus, the sooner you announce your station locations, the sooner you start the lobbying efforts for or against those choices. Witness Leslie and Eglinton.

Still, I'm glad that Tory has rebranded this and forced the planners to think about Toronto's needs, and out here in the daylight instead of behind closed doors. We all should be.
 

Back
Top