Hopkins123
Senior Member
Lawrence East has better potential for transit oriented development. This is what exists nearby already:
And this is currently what's slated to be built adjacent to the GO tracks next:
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SmartTrack (Proposed)
- Thread starter aquateam
- Start date
Lawrence East has better potential for transit oriented development. This is what exists nearby already:
And this is currently what's slated to be built adjacent to the GO tracks next:
dowlingm
Senior Member
There is a Centennial campus at Lawrence East, right? Also useful for transfer to Scarborough General on the 54.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Why is Smart Track only planing to use 2 GO lines? Why not them all?
mdrejhon
Senior Member
That's the electrification project. It's called GO RER.
robmausser
Senior Member
Basically GO RER will be the same thing as Smarttrack, so MOST GO lines will have the same technology as Smarttrack.
This will be especially so if complete fare integration is approved for all GO stations in Toronto proper
https://www.insidetoronto.com/news-...single-fare-for-all-transit-trips-in-toronto/
However, why not some lines?
Milton GO line is owned by CP rail, not Metrolinx. Thus they dictate what can be done with it. Its a major rail line for CP rail, and they don't want any more trains and stations on the line, let alone electric trains.
The Richmond Hill line has lower ridership than most, and plus it exists in an area prone to flooding. This is an issue metrolinx needs to fix first before offering better service on it.
The Kitchener and Stouffville Lines (where "Smarttrack" is operating) are owned by Metrolinx, and are in areas of densification, where more stations would greatly help out with transit in Toronto.
Some other lines, like the Barrie Line, parallel existing transit (Line 1 subway) so adding stations makes less sense.
However, Metrolinx IS adding more stations on almost all lines, and electrifying most, so you will see "Smarttrack" like service on most lines!
Here is what is planning to get electric service
Here is what is planning to get "subway-like" frequent service, aka "like Smarttrack" (figure 4)
and here are the new stations being proposed for GO RER, not just the "Smarttrack" lines
micheal_can
Senior Member
Basically GO RER will be the same thing as Smarttrack, so MOST GO lines will have the same technology as Smarttrack.
This will be especially so if complete fare integration is approved for all GO stations in Toronto proper
https://www.insidetoronto.com/news-...single-fare-for-all-transit-trips-in-toronto/
However, why not some lines?
Milton GO line is owned by CP rail, not Metrolinx. Thus they dictate what can be done with it. Its a major rail line for CP rail, and they don't want any more trains and stations on the line, let alone electric trains.
The Richmond Hill line has lower ridership than most, and plus it exists in an area prone to flooding. This is an issue metrolinx needs to fix first before offering better service on it.
The Kitchener and Stouffville Lines (where "Smarttrack" is operating) are owned by Metrolinx, and are in areas of densification, where more stations would greatly help out with transit in Toronto.
Some other lines, like the Barrie Line, parallel existing transit (Line 1 subway) so adding stations makes less sense.
However, Metrolinx IS adding more stations on almost all lines, and electrifying most, so you will see "Smarttrack" like service on most lines!
Here is what is planning to get electric service
Here is what is planning to get "subway-like" frequent service, aka "like Smarttrack" (figure 4)
and here are the new stations being proposed for GO RER, not just the "Smarttrack" lines
As I understood it, there will be more stops added to Smart Track beyond what GO RER will have.
Why not make all GO RER inside of Toronto, or to the next station Smart Track?
To me, it sounds like Tory ran on the Province doing his work for him.
Rainforest
Senior Member
For the most part, "SmarTrack" is a piggy-back on what the province is doing anyway.
However, it does add more stations within 416 than what the province would build. As far as I know, St Clair West (KI), Liberty Village, Unilever, Gerrard, Lawrence East are all "SmartTrack" additions that the province wasn't planning on building in the near future.
Plus, Eglinton West light rail; it lost its funding in 2013 due to the escalating cost of ECLRT, but hopefully will be funded as a part of SmartTrack.
robmausser
Senior Member
But there are some stops being added to the other lines, absolutely, who told you otherwise?
Smarttrack:
Kitchener Line - Goes through dense areas, with new stops at Liberty Village and St. Clair. Servicing areas that the subway does not.
Stouffville Line - Goes through dense areas, with new stops at Unilever, Gerrard, Lawerence, and Finch. Servicing areas that the subway does not.
GO RER:
Kitchener Line - New stop at Mount Dennis. Connects to Eglinton LRT. Not originally part of Smarttrack.
Barrie Line - New stops at Spadina, Caledonia and Downsview Park. No new stops anywhere else because Line 1 Spadina Subway services a very close area, and already stop at York U (Steeles)
Lakeshore West Line - Stops at Exhibition, Mimco, and Long Branch. No more stops needed. Might replace Mimico with Park Lawn stop in future. But since it runs adjacent or near the 501 streetcar, no infill stations needed. Enough stations already in Toronto.
Lakeshore East Line - New stop at Don Yard. No new stops along line as it closely parallels Line 2 Subway, and already stops at Scarborough, Eglinton, Guildwood, and Rouge Hill. No need for more stops.
Milton Line - No new stops because Metrolinx does not own the line. Can't electrify. Plus Bloor Subway (Line 2) runs parallel to track in most parts of Toronto.
Richmond Hill Line - No new stops because the track is prone to flooding and needs repair before electrification. Plus, mostly runs through Don Valley Ravine, not close to any density.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
If Metrolinx agrees with just one fare for any type of travel then GO ridership will soar. It will mean that the hundreds of thousands of Torontonians who would like to travel by a far faster and more comfortable GO train will now be able to. It is also a far superior use of resources both physical and human. Instead of having packed TTC buses being passed by half empty GO trains in mid-day, the GO trains will enjoy higher ridership and more TTC buses can be short turned to serve the GO stations more frequently.
Rainforest
Senior Member
At the present GO frequencies, trains would be completely swarmed by the crowds of intra-416 riders. Especially in the PM rush, suburban riders would not be able to get on their trains because much larger numbers of 416 riders would take all space.
A good idea in principle, but requires massive upgrades to the rail corridor to enable much higher frequencies.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Thus.... the "GO RER" plan.
In ten or fifteen years, when GO is running electric trains every 15 minutes in both directions -- it will be feasible to fare-integrate within the 416, so that rides from Long Branch to Union cost the same either by streetcar or GO. (If they go with one of the several proposed fare integration methods)
SmartTrack is simply piggybacked enhancements to two GO RER routes. That said, one SmartTrack "distinctiveness" is that the Kitchener-Stoufville route is probably the first route to get EMUs, while other GO routes will initially use electric locos (or dual mode locos) pulling existing BiLevels.
However, the Metrolinx PDF documents I've read indicate that Stoufville GO RER will be using the same trainsets (EMUs) to go all the way -- basically short-turning 3 out of 4 trains at Unionville. On the other end, these trainsets will probably eventually reach Mt. Pleasant once the 407 Rail Bypass is built for CN to allow Metrolinx to electrify through Brampton, and even possibly all the way to Kitchener.
The SmartTrack trains are the first planned EMUs for GO RER, which means the SmartTrack trains are really just GO's existing EMU plans being prioritized for the Kitchener-Stoufville route (in the Bramalea-Unionville segment). And Lakeshore East/West probably would follow a decade (or two) after in adopting the similar kinds of EMUs.
The station spacing density requirements warrants Kitchener-Stoufville in getting EMUs before Lakeshore East/West, but this does definitely potentially bring a temporary "SmartTrack" distinctiveness to two GO RER routes, even though the EMUs are simply the existing GO RER plans.
If you read the multi-hundred-page GO RER Business Plan from a couple years ago, and the 10-Year Optimized Plan (rather than the full plan or the minimum) it's pretty clear this is the direction of electrification. Maximum utilization of existing BiLevels (by using electric locomotives and dual modes) followed by incremental EMU deployments beginning with putting those on the "SmartTrack" route first. Even though some of these EMUs will service other parts of GO network -- e.g. 1 out of 4 Unionville EMUs likely does the the hourly Stoufville service all daytime/evening/weekend long.
It's really clearly the same system, with GO RER enhancements accelerated/prioritized (by municipal top-ups) on the Bramalea-Unionville route. Even without SmartTrack, it still makes sense that Bramalea-Unionville gets EMUs first because of tighter station spacing (the infill stations, especially also including the Crosstown LRT interchange stations).
EMU accelerate/stop faster, so it helps tightly-spaced stations more. Lakeshore East/West have huge stop spacing, so that's why Lakeshore is not getting first EMUs before Bramalea/Unionville. BiLevels are still being built for GO today, and GO RER EMU deployment will be very incremental (Beginning with the SmartTrack route).
In ten or fifteen years, when GO is running electric trains every 15 minutes in both directions -- it will be feasible to fare-integrate within the 416, so that rides from Long Branch to Union cost the same either by streetcar or GO. (If they go with one of the several proposed fare integration methods)
SmartTrack is simply piggybacked enhancements to two GO RER routes. That said, one SmartTrack "distinctiveness" is that the Kitchener-Stoufville route is probably the first route to get EMUs, while other GO routes will initially use electric locos (or dual mode locos) pulling existing BiLevels.
However, the Metrolinx PDF documents I've read indicate that Stoufville GO RER will be using the same trainsets (EMUs) to go all the way -- basically short-turning 3 out of 4 trains at Unionville. On the other end, these trainsets will probably eventually reach Mt. Pleasant once the 407 Rail Bypass is built for CN to allow Metrolinx to electrify through Brampton, and even possibly all the way to Kitchener.
The SmartTrack trains are the first planned EMUs for GO RER, which means the SmartTrack trains are really just GO's existing EMU plans being prioritized for the Kitchener-Stoufville route (in the Bramalea-Unionville segment). And Lakeshore East/West probably would follow a decade (or two) after in adopting the similar kinds of EMUs.
The station spacing density requirements warrants Kitchener-Stoufville in getting EMUs before Lakeshore East/West, but this does definitely potentially bring a temporary "SmartTrack" distinctiveness to two GO RER routes, even though the EMUs are simply the existing GO RER plans.
If you read the multi-hundred-page GO RER Business Plan from a couple years ago, and the 10-Year Optimized Plan (rather than the full plan or the minimum) it's pretty clear this is the direction of electrification. Maximum utilization of existing BiLevels (by using electric locomotives and dual modes) followed by incremental EMU deployments beginning with putting those on the "SmartTrack" route first. Even though some of these EMUs will service other parts of GO network -- e.g. 1 out of 4 Unionville EMUs likely does the the hourly Stoufville service all daytime/evening/weekend long.
It's really clearly the same system, with GO RER enhancements accelerated/prioritized (by municipal top-ups) on the Bramalea-Unionville route. Even without SmartTrack, it still makes sense that Bramalea-Unionville gets EMUs first because of tighter station spacing (the infill stations, especially also including the Crosstown LRT interchange stations).
EMU accelerate/stop faster, so it helps tightly-spaced stations more. Lakeshore East/West have huge stop spacing, so that's why Lakeshore is not getting first EMUs before Bramalea/Unionville. BiLevels are still being built for GO today, and GO RER EMU deployment will be very incremental (Beginning with the SmartTrack route).
micheal_can
Senior Member
So, in short, there is no difference. All Smart Track is, is GO RER sooner to some of the lines.
Adjei
Senior Member
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Too bad all trains will have to stop at every station not allowing for express.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Do they have the space to either add a track for express, or to make the stations sidings to allow express trains to bypass them?