Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Well, fare integration may also include free transfers too.
|
|
|
SmartTrack (Proposed)
- Thread starter aquateam
- Start date
OneCity
Senior Member
GO and TTC for that matter should sell off some parking land to developers who should be forced to build large adequate parking facilities underground. Just make it easier for people to take public transit. If you get people out of their car and give them an opportunity to access the job areas and the City as a whole in a reliable and efficient manner, its a good thing. That's what we want
If the transit is convenient and efficient enough you can certainly charge for parking. If not people will be deterred and it will never work no matter how bad people are choked off. We need to stop trying to blanket style building throughout the City. There is no need for a war. We need political planners who can see the reality of now, 10 years 50 years and where we want to progress to and how it impacts all walks of life. Until then its a "war" or power struggle if we continue to inconvenience people which rely on any form of transit be it a bike, streetcar or car etc...
For Smarttrack stops outside the City's core parking lots make a ton of sense and these lots can be sold of in another century when they are no longer needed anyway. For now and the coming decades they are still very much needed.
Last edited:
mdrejhon
Senior Member
AFAIK, it's a fully integrated service. SmartTrack-funded enhancements to GO RER is simply GO RER making more stops at more stations, possibly with a different GO train such as an EMU. This route probably will be the first EMU-upgraded route, but it's still GO RER and SmarTrack. Same thing, same train, when it comes to this particular route.
In twenty years, GO trains will no longer be synonymous with Bombardier BiLevels, with Metrolinx running EMUs, and BiLevels, possibly even single-storey trains and double-deckers. Basically, a more diversified GO train fleet -- or whatever branding they chose then, whether GO Metro or GO RER or GO SmartTrack or SmartTrack or whatever -- it won't be monolithic like the original UPX was.
44 North
Senior Member
Ok cool thx for posting this. I sort of stopped caring about ST because this seemed to be where it was headed. And this is the first confirmation I've seen that it'll be the same GO trains. So with the new co-fare arrangement, can it be argued that half of SmartTrack is basically accomplished?
WislaHD
Superstar
dowlingm
Senior Member
what has been accomplished is nowhere near 50pc of what was promised when running against Olivia Chow. But Tory’s political staff and his re-election team will be claiming it is 99pc.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I was just about to post an answer to the effect of "If it's only half the fare for some, and still a handful of stations to build (for which the City is still owing, with no sign so far of budgeting for) then I would have had to answer "less than half"....but that just changed a fraction with Wisla's post:
Not only is that interesting in terms of SmartTrack derailing, but it lends a clue to Metrolinx taking on a number of professional agencies to push the electrification schedule forward, ML doesn't have sufficient manpower in-house. But there's another element to it, a "legal tussle with the City" (head of one of the agencies retained). Obviously I can't divulge more than that, not that I know exactly what the legal issue is, save that ML know that they have every legal cudgel to get their own way...save for one crucial point I'm told: "Staging areas".
And there it is, right in that article:
[The report also assumed Metrolinx would have to acquire the SRT station site and use it as a staging area.]
I have no way to confirm that as the issue due to confidentiality agreements, I presumed it was something like bridges, catenary, and safety requirements, but that just might be the issue. And it might also pertain elsewhere.
Many thanks for that.
Addendum:
It's interesting to see City Hall hang themselves so voluntarily, and have no idea that they're doing it...
Last edited:
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
So even with a TTC fare, both the City and Metrolinx (despite Tory’s protests) agree that the addition of this station will have a net negative impact on the RER network. We shall see how much money QP and City Council are willing to waste on this stop (and associated subsidies) to help Tory save face with his one-stop SSE proposal.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I just wrote as an edit to my post above:
There's reason to believe QP...or at least *ML Executive Management* (not the Minister) now 'get it' and are pushing ahead in spite of 'resistance from behind'. The fix is in to win the next election, and *apparently!* that's 'electrification' and with it, RER.
We'll see, but SmartTrack is vanishing, piece by piece.
WislaHD
Superstar
Vanishing?
It has vanished already, as @44 North said last page, that tweet was confirmation of what we suspected. Smarttrack is just GO-RER with fast-tracked construction of stations inside the 416 and some degree of fare integration with TTC. Now, tomorow's morning headline will raise concerns about one of the (most prominent) new 416 stations.
Lawrence East is not that important in the grand scheme of things for the Stouffvile GO-RER line. The real potential for chaos this news has is on pouring fuel into the fire that is the one-stop Scarborough subway. The one-stop subway plan was predicated on cost-concerns of constructing an underground station at Lawrence, and the addition of a Lawrence station on SmartTrack that would alleviate the need for a subway station (supposedly, according to the dubious ridership study city staff came up with to justify SmartTrack).
Last edited:
steveintoronto
Superstar
The *theory* remains alive, unfortunately, as does the pretense for the remaining stations that the City is obliged to finance. It's not dead yet politically. There's still a handful of stations that QP has stated they won't finance, but City Hall insists will be built.
City, Metrolinx Reveal Early Plans for 6 SmartTrack Stations
October 11, 2017 1:37 pm | by Robert Mackenzie | 16 Comments
Remember SmartTrack, the key transit plank in candidate John Tory's platform during his campaign to become mayor? Tory proposed a rapid transit line with frequent service two ways, all day, every day, along GO Transit rail corridors from Markham, through Union Station to north-west Toronto—and then further west to Toronto Pearson International Airport. Well, SmartTrack is still alive and kicking and, yesterday, Mayor Tory hiked along the GO train tracks to kick off the next phase of the project.
[...]
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/10/city-metrolinx-reveal-early-plans-6-smarttrack-stations
Here's what 44 North stated:
He didn't allude to "vanished" at all. He stated "half of SmartTrack is basically accomplished", albeit as a rhetorical question.
That makes an important point, as I have reason to suspect ML, rather than arguing with Tory, has a new approach to assimilate the concept, and axe a number of the proposed "SmartTrack" stations, and the branding with them.
But there's a bellwether there too...for the Relief Line, but some still cling to that as still being a fait accompli for the City. There's going to be more than a few surprises in the next while, not least that the City can't afford the many dreams it loves to espouse, and he who pays the piper, names the tune. And that's QP.
From the UT's article:
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/10/city-metrolinx-reveal-early-plans-6-smarttrack-stations
The Star's article yesterday throws the kibosh on Lawrence East, but also alludes to problems elsewhere. There's more to come on this story. SmartTrack and debacles are still very much alive...
As a footnote, I suspect Del Duca has had his wings clipped by Wynne's office. He will remain as (effectively) 'Minister of Announcements', and retain his Transport title, but Metrolinx executive have been given a freer hand to move things forward in a rational and expeditious way to allow 'things to look good' come election time. And if Tory gets in the way, he's on his own. With no money. He'll have to get a job to support his hobby.
Last edited:
drum118
Superstar
WislaHD
Superstar
Semantics.
SmartTrack is for all intents and purposes, GO-RER at this point.
Tory's campaign idea or council vision has completely faded (beyond the prospect of fare integration). We are discussing the difference between GO-RER stations or GO-RER Toronto 'SmartTrack' stations.
SmartTrack may as well be defining what gets funded by the city rather than the province.
The other 'half' of the SmartTrack "plan" that is still as of yet unaccomplished, are Crosstown West extension and fare integration, I suppose.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
It is completely ridiculous that the main reason for having the SSE on the McCowan alignment to prevent the shutdown of the SRT is now just being realized to not even be able to happen due to the Lawrence East SmartTrack/RER station needing the Lawrence East Station land. Did anyone not tell John Tory that his plan for the one stop subway and SmartTrack at Lawrence East was flawed how the SRT will have to close and shuttle busses will be necessary? I’ll have to admit that I didn’t realize this myself, but how can the planners not realize this?
steveintoronto
Superstar
Which is exactly why I stated "We'll see, but SmartTrack is vanishing, piece by piece."
Let me rephrase your obvious point: 'How can they see it and not blow the whistle?'
I suspect there's a lot more to come on this, and the transit writers at the big newspapers in Toronto are getting a flurry of tips from the inside. Tory is about to take a tumble methinks. And he doesn't need to be pushed from Queen's Park, it will be by his own petard. QP has enough on its plate with the Minister of Announcements meddling in Metrolinx.
Last edited: