SmartTrack (Proposed)

[crs1026]

I just find it weird that people keep saying "subways, RER" cant make this turn, yet a freight train can?

There is already a heavy rail spur in that location.

Freight trains do, yes.....at very slow speed, noisily, with considerable rail and wheel wear. That's an industrial siding, not a mainline track.

T1/TR vehicles are quite long even for heavy rail, and so their turning radius at speed is fairly wide. Go too fast and people get shook up, and wear and noise increases.

If you are positing a different vehicle, such as the current SRT, with a shorter wheelbase - well yes they can make that turn at speed, but it's still not that quiet. Or comfortable.

TTC's spec for gentler curves makes good sense for an enclosed line that they want to maintain easily and operate quietly and comfortably.

- Paul

 

[flyinggoats]

What about a DMU vehicle, the size of an UPex train?

 

[robmausser]

Freight trains do, yes.....at very slow speed, noisily, with considerable rail and wheel wear. That's an industrial siding, not a mainline track.

T1/TR vehicles are quite long even for heavy rail, and so their turning radius at speed is fairly wide. Go too fast and people get shook up, and wear and noise increases.

If you are positing a different vehicle, such as the current SRT, with a shorter wheelbase - well yes they can make that turn at speed, but it's still not that quiet. Or comfortable.

TTC's spec for gentler curves makes good sense for an enclosed line that they want to maintain easily and operate quietly and comfortably.

- Paul

The curves at Union and St.George are tighter than this on the already existing Line 1.

 

[crs1026]

The curves at Union and St.George are tighter than this on the already existing Line 1.

Yes, they were designed that way in 1950. I doubt you will see TTC willingly accept that tight a curve on any future line, except maybe on a connecting wye.

- Paul

 

[rbt]

The curves at Union and St.George are tighter than this on the already existing Line 1.

TTCs experience with those curves is the very reason they refuse to add more outside of yards; they're very maintenance intensive.

 

[ssiguy2]

It's amazing how spending $50 million to help straighten a curve is too costly so the only answer is to spend $3 billion to get a new line without the bend.

 

[TOareaFan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...urban-driving-analysis-shows/article34326461/

 

[Cobra]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...urban-driving-analysis-shows/article34326461/

Not a fan of Smarttrack but RER means the trains going faster would offset that, no?

 

[TOareaFan]

Not a fan of Smarttrack but RER means the trains going faster would offset that, no?

I would imagine, since the report covers the next 60 years operating environment was taken into account.....so no it does not seem to offset it in the eyes of ML.....the other three stations proposed do better (and I am pleased to hear the top performer of the 6 is Liberty Village - can we just build it now ).

It should be noted that current GO fare was used in the modelling in the absence of any agreement on integration.

 

[salsa]

This is just amazing.

Adding ST stations at Finch, Lawrence, St. Clair would lead to more than billion extra kilometres driven over next 60 years. The issue is that while new stations would attract some people, they would also push existing riders away. Those stations would cost $162.6M to build and produce net fare revenue of *negative* $82.4M.


Tory’s Smart Track transit plan would cause surge in suburban driving, analysis shows

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...urban-driving-analysis-shows/article34326461/

 

[salsa]

Just go away SmartTrack. You've done enough. Can we please be done with this horse shit and just go back to where we were before? Stop gerrymandering other transit lines because of SmartTrack. Stop shoving this transit plan that nobody needed and that was already covered by GO RER, only because a few developers pitched it to benefit their properties. Reinstate Lawrence station on the Scarborough subway where it should have been all along.

 

[facepalming_brooklynite]

This is just amazing.

Adding ST stations at Finch, Lawrence, St. Clair would lead to more than billion extra kilometres driven over next 60 years. The issue is that while new stations would attract some people, they would also push existing riders away. Those stations would cost $162.6M to build and produce net fare revenue of *negative* $82.4M.


Tory’s Smart Track transit plan would cause surge in suburban driving, analysis shows

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...urban-driving-analysis-shows/article34326461/

Would these "independent consultants" make the same argument against RER?

And did they factor in electrification? Surely the improved speed from electrification would offset the extra 1-2 minutes required to stop at these additional stops.

I'm sorry, but this seems like a fundamentally absurd claim to anyone who has ever taken suburban commuter rail in Europe or Asia. The GTA desperately needs better options for transit across the region, and you can't build a true network without having some options for connectivity to other modes.

 

[salsa]

Would these "independent consultants" make the same argument against RER?

And did they factor in electrification? Surely the improved speed from electrification would offset the extra 1-2 minutes required to stop at these additional stops.

I'm sorry, but this seems like a fundamentally absurd claim to anyone who has ever taken suburban commuter rail in Europe or Asia. The GTA desperately needs better options for transit across the region, and you can't build a true network without having some options for connectivity to other modes.

These same consultants also said that stations in Liberty Village, Unilever and Gerrard Square do much better in the analysis. It's really quite simple: if the stations will not add enough new riders to offset the added travel time, then don't build them. Instead of relying on electrification to merely offset the added travel time, how about we actually decrease the total travel time by not building useless stations. Spend the money on something else that's of greater value.

 

[TOareaFan]

It looks like electrification was considered as appropriate (ie. I guess not for all lines for the entire study period as it would come on stream at different times)

This was in the key assumptions page of the report

 

[TOareaFan]

These same consultants also said that stations in Liberty Village, Unilever and Gerrard Square do much better in the analysis. It's really quite simple: if the stations will not add enough new riders to offset the added travel time, then don't build them. Spend the money on something better.

it is a bit worse than that....the 3 poorly performing stations in this report actually send more people back to the car..