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SmartTrack (Proposed)

crs1026 said:
At the speeds we're talking about - at the moment where the ST train clears into the siding, giving RER a green light, the RER train will have to be be several miles behind. If it is several miles behind, it will take several minutes to catch up and overtake the ST train. The ST train's station dwell time is only a minute or less. If the RER hasn't gone by yet, it will have to sit and wait until the RER goes by, and then until RER is a couple miles ahead so that signals will clear for ST...unless.... it has its own track to use to continue onwards
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yeah but this is using CROR rather than magic "European rules" where you can run heavy rail trains at 60 second intervals, which is just such Debbie and Douglas Downer thinking...
 
Reecemartin said:
What is going on with the Davenport Diamond overpass? Is the project likely to go through? It seems like the latest proposals are far improved. It seems like no matter what happens Metrolinx will state needs of the many over needs of the few and build it
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That's not the Davenport Diamond as such (which is now grade-separated) but an overpass to the east of it to separate these sets of tracks: https://goo.gl/maps/hfTJyupSTpL2

I think the latest word is that the overpass is set to go ahead.
 
So, I was reading the background for the Davenport Diamond and it says "14 trains pass through the so-called Davenport Diamond each day, but the bridge would help elevate that number to 180 trips daily". So all this growth ridership Metrolinx is projecting for all these GO lines, are these projections any better than the UPX projections, or Shepard subway numbers projections, etc, etc
 
Palma said:
So, I was reading the background for the Davenport Diamond and it says "14 trains pass through the so-called Davenport Diamond each day, but the bridge would help elevate that number to 180 trips daily". So all this growth ridership Metrolinx is projecting for all these GO lines, are these projections any better than the UPX projections, or Shepard subway numbers projections, etc, etc
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I don't know about specific ridership projections, but this has to be seen in the context of the overall RER project, promising 15-minute GO service in both directions throughout the day for many lines. For anyone who has taken public transit in European or Asian cities, the RER scheme is eminently sensible (and necessary), while the UPX scheme was clearly not (this was obvious 5 years ago). As far as the particular Barrie-GO line is concerned, I would suspect that regional commuter demand from Barrie, Newmarket, and Aurora is robust. In addition, the line will also be useful for travel within the city, with subway/LRT connections at Downsview and Eglinton (and hopefully Bloor). For example, it would revolutionize commutes from the West End to York University: cutting commute times from a close to one hour-long subway ride with transfer at St.George to a 15-minute train ride.
 
facepalming_brooklynite said:
I don't know about specific ridership projections, but this has to be seen in the context of the overall RER project, promising 15-minute GO service in both directions throughout the day for many lines. For anyone who has taken public transit in European or Asian cities, the RER scheme is eminently sensible (and necessary), while the UPX scheme was clearly not (this was obvious 5 years ago). As far as the particular Barrie-GO line is concerned, I would suspect that regional commuter demand from Barrie, Newmarket, and Aurora is robust. In addition, the line will also be useful for travel within the city, with subway/LRT connections at Downsview and Eglinton (and hopefully Bloor). For example, it would revolutionize commutes from the West End to York University: cutting commute times from a close to one hour-long subway ride with transfer at St.George to a 15-minute train ride.
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I'd like to still be alive when all this happens.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ans-fighting-for-same-riders/article29027573/

New analysis is showing how much two of Toronto Mayor John Tory’s key transit projects risk competing with each other for riders.

Included in a voluminous release of transit planning reports late Thursday, the finding that SmartTrack could push Scarborough subway ridership below 10,000 per hour is likely to renew questions about the viability of having the two lines operate so close together.

Mr. Tory ran on a promise to extend the Bloor-Danforth subway into Scarborough and also on the proposal he dubbed SmartTrack – a sort of local service added onto the existing GO rail network, including through Scarborough, with 22 stops.

While campaigning, Mr. Tory often answered questions about his transit proposals by saying he was determined to make them happen. And he brushed off concerns about the two lines competing by saying that he didn’t talk to anyone who believed the city was building too much transit. In Scarborough, though, transit planners were alarmed enough to study a broad range of possible alignments for the subway extension, even considering taking it well off the direct route to move it away from Smart Track.

The impact the lines would have on each other is laid bare in the new reports.

“Extending the Bloor-Danforth subway line into Scarborough is an important addition to our transit network and will provide critical transit for Scarborough,” mayoral spokeswoman Amanda Galbraith said in a statement. “Ridership numbers are always lowest at the ends of the line, but that doesn’t mean that each region of our city should not be served by high-speed transit.”

Both Chief Planner Jennifer Keesmaat and Mr. Tory have stressed to reporters in recent weeks that ridership is not the only factor when making transit decisions.

“Of course ridership projections are not the only factor, but they are a core indicator that has been used time and time and time again to provide a rationale for projects,” countered midtown Councillor Josh Matlow Thursday evening. “In the specific Scarborough debate, I remember [ridership] being a critical factor.”

Mr. Matlow said he did not want to comment directly on the reports until he had had time to read them.

The new reports also included a recommendation from city staff for pared-down versions of SmartTrack. They are urging Metrolinx, the regional transit agency, to consider options that serve 11 existing stations, and between four and eight new ones.

The new transit ridership figures show that, according to modelling done for the city by researchers at the University of Toronto, the three– or four-stop Scarborough subway extension Mr. Tory campaigned on would have a peak usage of 13,700 to 17,700 people per hour per direction. That is in line with an earlier projection, but the figure drops sharply when the mayor’s SmartTrack proposal is added to the mix.

With SmartTrack running trains at 15-minute intervals, the peak number of passengers using the Scarborough extension goes down to 12,600. And with it running every five minutes – which earlier city reports have suggested would be necessary – Scarborough peak ridership goes down to 9,800.

The lowest figure from the latest report is barely more than the 9,500 people city staff projected years ago. That figure was considered marginal for a subway and was later replaced by projection for 14,000 riders, which made the case for a subway stronger but attracted accusations of fiddling the numbers.

These latest ridership projections are not definitive, though.

Since the campaign, a new proposal for a one-stop subway extension has emerged – with an estimated price of $2.5-billion. Changing to that plan would have an effect on the numbers: Fewer stops would mean a faster run by the train, which could attract more passengers, but there would not be as many places for them to board. More modelling work will be needed on this new proposal.

In the reports out Thursday, city staff said that more work was needed to assess demand on a whole series of transit proposals.

“This work will further assess the network impacts of transit lines [in the report], as well as other potential network additions,” they write. “Appropriate sequencing of the range of projects being considered for the transit network will be better understood through this modelling work and will inform the phasing of the possible future transit networks.”
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I don't know whether I have found all the studies that just got posted (are they all accessible from the Executive City agenda on the City's web site, or are there some elsewhere?) but - the Executive Committe memo has the Planning Department asking for Council approval to discard all but two ST scenarios. Of the two remaining, one has numerous stops and one has few new stops. I wonder if the potential agenda is to quietly draw attention to whether ST is needed at all on the Unionville line, presuming the Line 2 extension is a done deal.

I wonder if the comparison of those two remaining alternatives would point to the potential to divert ST funding to reinstate a Lawrence stop on Line 2, and perhaps reinstate the leg north to Sheppard, while retaining the LRT line to U of T.

Interesting way to make a 180 degree turn in small increments. Or maybe kick a pebble down the hill, hoping it will start a bigger earth movement.

- Paul
 
cplchanb said:
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...yor-john-torys-transit-promises-analysis.html

an interesting article on the evolution of JT's smarttrack plan. At least this mayor is willing to listen to reason and professional advice unlike his
predecessor who stuck to his ideologies to the end.
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He wasn't willing to listen during the campaign though. How much should we respect someone who backtracks on a promise made to get votes when more coherent plans were poohpoohed as insufficiently ambitious?
 
dowlingm said:
He wasn't willing to listen during the campaign though. How much should we respect someone who backtracks on a promise made to get votes when more coherent plans were poohpoohed as insufficiently ambitious?
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True,
At least he faced reality and changed his views... imagine if he wasnt able to attract enough votes to beat doug ford....who would you want as mayor?
 
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