Small Ticket Changes

[TransitPolicyChanger]

Technically they're not HOV lanes, they're bus-only lanes. (Even cars with 3 or more occupants aren't permitted.)

These were converted to Bus only when the York U busway was opened (I believe) and I also assume these will be converted back to normal HOV lanes when the Spadina subway extension opens. I think the conversion also included the direct entrance to Downsview Station from southbound Dufferin (Allen Road) south of Sheppard. This work included the removal of the right HOV lane on Allen Road from Transit Road to Sheppard.

 

[Chuck]

I would like to see Church and Bay converted to opposing 1 way streets with full signal coordination, but Yonge reduced to just 2 lanes from Front to St. Clair. The extra road space on Yonge would be turned over to dedicated on street bike lanes and wider sidewalks since that's where the actual demand lies.

Also, I'd like for 4 way pedestrian crossings to be tweaked so that it alternates from all pedestrians no cars, to all cars no pedestrians. During the all cars phase, right turns would be permitted. What we have right now kind of defeats the purpose since pedestrians still only have a 1/3 chance of arriving on an all green phase, while cars still can't turn right.

 

[Ed Drass]

It's not unheard of for government to adopt planning improvements presented by transit advocates, so this discussion could be useful -- particularly when the current city regime has not yet formally proposed an extensive transport plan.

The Fords may reject any improvements that involve taking away lane space or access from autos, but Toronto will eventually have to agree on certain surface upgrades. Here's where the dreaded "compromise" comes in: how to propose a realistic HOV/transit only network that acknowledges the real opposition to any lane loss for car drivers? Transit priority signalling also needs to be part of the discussion, especially while/if the Fords get around to fulfilling campaign promises about signalization changes.

Cases need to be made why surface transit only lanes or queue jump lanes are desirable, arguments are needed in favour of efficient use of the city's limited road space, benefits in economic development need to be laid out simply, and possible win-wins that include car drivers have to be identified...

It would be tricky, since it is the specifics that can derail general consensus. For example, making Church a one way thoroughfare kinda freaks me out, even if the plus is making Yonge more walking-friendly.

-ed d.

 

[reaperexpress]

It's not unheard of for government to adopt planning improvements presented by transit advocates, so this discussion could be useful -- particularly when the current city regime has not yet formally proposed an extensive transport plan.

The Fords may reject any improvements that involve taking away lane space or access from autos, but Toronto will eventually have to agree on certain surface upgrades. Here's where the dreaded "compromise" comes in: how to propose a realistic HOV/transit only network that acknowledges the real opposition to any lane loss for car drivers? Transit priority signalling also needs to be part of the discussion, especially while/if the Fords get around to fulfilling campaign promises about signalization changes.

Cases need to be made why surface transit only lanes or queue jump lanes are desirable, arguments are needed in favour of efficient use of the city's limited road space, benefits in economic development need to be laid out simply, and possible win-wins that include car drivers have to be identified...

It would be tricky, since it is the specifics that can derail general consensus. For example, making Church a one way thoroughfare kinda freaks me out, even if the plus is making Yonge more walking-friendly.

-ed d.

I like the idea of converting more lanes to HOV lanes because I think it's something palatable to the Ford regime. It doesn't actually take space away from cars, it could speed up journey time for some drivers, and Ford gets to claim he cares about transit without actually spending any money.

Transit priority signaling is also promising because car drivers won't notice any difference, yet it would speed up transit. There would obviously be some objection from some ultra car-centric people, but of those I've talked to, even the most car-dependent people support measures such as cue jumps, HOV lanes and Transit Priority.

 

[gweed123]

I like the idea of converting more lanes to HOV lanes because I think it's something palatable to the Ford regime. It doesn't actually take space away from cars, it could speed up journey time for some drivers, and Ford gets to claim he cares about transit without actually spending any money.

Transit priority signaling is also promising because car drivers won't notice any difference, yet it would speed up transit. There would obviously be some objection from some ultra car-centric people, but of those I've talked to, even the most car-dependent people support measures such as cue jumps, HOV lanes and Transit Priority.

As they should, because it means they won't get stuck behind a bus who's loading and unloading passengers. If they do it in their own curbside cut-out or do it in a queue jump lane, the only slow-down the motorist experiences is when the bus tries to merge back in with traffic, a much smaller disturbance than having a bus stop right in front of you, and then you having to either wait for the bus to move, or to cut out into the other lane around it.

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

As they should, because it means they won't get stuck behind a bus who's loading and unloading passengers. If they do it in their own curbside cut-out or do it in a queue jump lane, the only slow-down the motorist experiences is when the bus tries to merge back in with traffic, a much smaller disturbance than having a bus stop right in front of you, and then you having to either wait for the bus to move, or to cut out into the other lane around it.

Some people will definitely get ticked off is a lane is converted to HOV, but as gweed said the lane with a bus in it is already slow because it has to stop all the time. Once again this comes back to culture and leadership. With a mayor that favors all transit off the roads, drivers are going to continue to develop the mindset that its just wrong for that bus or streetcar to have that lane to themselves.

The important move is to take back a portion of the road for transit and make the rules of the road (at least at rush hour) work in transit's favor. On streets that have HOV lanes maybe we look at banning right hand turns to keep the HOV lane from getting blocked up at intersections. If the road has a right lane HOV lane AND a curb-side cut out at the intersection maybe the HOV lane should flow into the cut out and a right turn signal could be added to prevent traffic from blocking buses ... just an idea...

 

[gweed123]

Some people will definitely get ticked off is a lane is converted to HOV, but as gweed said the lane with a bus in it is already slow because it has to stop all the time. Once again this comes back to culture and leadership. With a mayor that favors all transit off the roads, drivers are going to continue to develop the mindset that its just wrong for that bus or streetcar to have that lane to themselves.

The important move is to take back a portion of the road for transit and make the rules of the road (at least at rush hour) work in transit's favor. On streets that have HOV lanes maybe we look at banning right hand turns to keep the HOV lane from getting blocked up at intersections. If the road has a right lane HOV lane AND a curb-side cut out at the intersection maybe the HOV lane should flow into the cut out and a right turn signal could be added to prevent traffic from blocking buses ... just an idea...

No need to ban right hand turns, just create a separate right turn lane on the right side of the HOV lanes. The bus lanes along Woodroffe in Ottawa work this way. About 50m before the intersection, the bus lane goes from solid lines to dashed lines, and people who are making a right turn are allowed to cut through the bus lane in order to access the right turn lane. Works pretty well, and I have yet to see a real conflict between bus and car when they could potentially cross paths.

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

Last time I was in Ottawa i found people obeyed the Transit lanes pretty well. I'm not sure if Woodroffe is the main east west street, but on the street i'm thinking of the buses had no traffic to contend with, well except with some minor bunching. Is the population just more transit friendly or is enforcement greater there?

Maybe the better question is how they managed to take lanes away from cars without the mayor losing it.

 

[gweed123]

Last time I was in Ottawa i found people obeyed the Transit lanes pretty well. I'm not sure if Woodroffe is the main east west street, but on the street i'm thinking of the buses had no traffic to contend with, well except with some minor bunching. Is the population just more transit friendly or is enforcement greater there?

It's a suburban N-S arterial in the west end. The Transitway runs parallel to it for a portion, and then switches to on-street curbside lanes for about 2km, then back to a dedicated ROW running parallel through the Greenbelt. Ottawa has the highest per capita transit ridership of any mid-size city is North America (higher than Calgary and Portland, the Mecca of mid-size LRT cities), so I'd say that yes, Ottawa is pretty transit friendly. There is some enforcement of the transit-only lanes, but by and large people just stay out of them on their own. Woodroffe isn't the only example of curbside bus lanes in Ottawa either, they're implemented all through downtown (Albert and Slater Sts), and along part of Rideau St. They also exist on the 417 and 174 through the Greenbelt. In fact, one of the most iconic pictures of transit in Ottawa is a picture of the 3 lane 174 with bumper-to-bumper traffic, and a bus travelling by them at full speed in the bus-only lane.

Maybe the better question is how they managed to take lanes away from cars without the mayor losing it.

In the case of Woodroffe, the lanes were installed as part of a road widening, so no lanes were actually taken away. The proposed Baseline BRT is using mainly road widening, but there will also be a few sections where the road is already 6 lanes, where they will be using existing traffic lanes and turning them into BRT lanes.

Everyone always makes a big deal about Ottawa's LRT plan, but in reality the LRT accounts for only about 1/3 of the transit expansion Ottawa is going to see in the next ~20 years. The other 2/3 is going to be a mix of dedicated ROW Transitway, and curbside bus lanes.

EDIT: Here's the photo I was talking about: http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/onthemove/driving/traffic/transit_priority/freeway_en-1.jpg

 

[nfitz]

Last time I was in Ottawa i found people obeyed the Transit lanes pretty well.

One of the bizarre things I used to notice working in Ottawa though was that downtown, pedestrians would stand at red lights, even when there wasn't any traffic in sight. It was kind of scary ... perhaps it says something about the kind of people who are career civil servants. It's been a few years though ... perhaps they aren't as civil anymore.