Signed up for downspout disconnection

[Admiral Beez]

I've known about it since we've bought our west-end home two years ago. Our downspouts however, were never connected to the storm system.

It's not the storm system they're worried about (though redirecting those will help the trees), but the sewer system, which is overwhelmed by rain water.

 

[Urban Shocker]

The rainwater downspouts generally feed into the same main sewer pipe, usually running beneath the house, that the bathtub/shower, handbasin/sink and w.c. waste pipes are connected to. It joins the main sewer that runs beneath the street and then goes ... somewhere.

And, if you've got a big tree out front of your house, the roots may occasionally find their way into the drains, block them ... and cause nasty backups through the 'breather' in the basement floor.

 

[paraone]

really? I always thought they were separated. When it rains and I pull the cap in the basement I can see rushing water, but not when I flush my toilet, thats what made me believe they were separate. How come it doesn't smell like shit when I pull the cap off the breather, you'd think that the waste lines in a 120 year old house would surely stink.

 

[Roy G Biv]

Jesus.

My house just had a giant restoration performed to undo termite damage. Termites were loving the wet basement, so downspouts were attached to the drainpipes in hopes of keeping water away from the house.

Is it possible the general contractor didn't know he couldn't do this as of this summer?

EDIT: How will the city tag offenders? Will inspectors be as ubquitous as the parking Gestapo? If I can get away with it for 3 years, I'd be happy.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Some houses will not be able to have their downspouts disconnected, especially those in tight areas or row houses, such as in Cabbagetown, at risk of flooding the sidewalks or foundations of neighbouring houses, especially when a rain barrel isn't feasible. The inspector isn't going to force everyone to disconnect, he's only reviewing each case to see if disconnection is feasible.

 

[paraone]

Well that answers my other question...
a rain barrel is fine for the back but we are the last house of a row and our front eaves is shared with our neighbour and we have no front yard, just a little stoop right out to the sidewalk. so if they disconnected the front we would flood our sidewalk and stoop it may also be a tripping hazard and I don't want to be sued come February when it keeps freezing over.

 

[Urban Shocker]

paraone: Perhaps you do have a separate system for rainwater - I supose there are alternative ways of setting these things up. My house is 100 years old, so maybe the method they used to connect rainwater runoff into household sewer pipes was different in those days. Or perhaps the plumbing stack from your toilet joins the sewer pipe that runs beneath your basement floor at a point "downstream" from where the rainwater empties into it? And perhaps, like many of us, you just think your shit don't stink?

Help! Is there a plumber on the forum?

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/basement_flooding/pdf/remediation-option.pdf

 

[Tranplanner]

Depending on where you live you can have one of two different sewer systems

1) Combined - sanitary (household) and storm (runoff) run into one big pipe.

2) Separated - different sets of pipes for sanitary and storm systems.

Typically, the City is most concerned with disconnecting downspouts in areas where a combined sewer system is still present. Eventually, the whole city should have separated systems, but that will be a long time coming.

Roy - sounds like your contractor used a short-cut to solve your basement problems. The alternative probably would have been to dig out beside your foundation and install a new weeping tile plus waterproof the foundation walls. Mucho dinero.

Paraone - not sure what solution might work if the City indeed forces disconnection. You might be looking at rejigging of your eaves to run everything to the back, or perhaps an additional downspout on the side of your house would work.

 

[Roy G Biv]

Roy - sounds like your contractor used a short-cut to solve your basement problems. The alternative probably would have been to dig out beside your foundation and install a new weeping tile plus waterproof the foundation walls. Mucho dinero.

That was done too.

The termite card will be played, and we'll see what the inspector says...

Allowing rainwater to sit in the soils of Cabbagetown is just going to exacerbate the neighborhood's "5-star" termite problem. The city has been of NO HELP in this regard, so having them come around fining people for this kind of this just going to cause problems.

 

[paraone]

paraone: Perhaps you do have a separate system for rainwater - I supose there are alternative ways of setting these things up. My house is 100 years old, so maybe the method they used to connect rainwater runoff into household sewer pipes was different in those days. Or perhaps the plumbing stack from your toilet joins the sewer pipe that runs beneath your basement floor at a point "downstream" from where the rainwater empties into it? And perhaps, like many of us, you just think your shit don't stink?

Help! Is there a plumber on the forum?

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/basement_flooding/pdf/remediation-option.pdf

Since we're almost in the same nabe, you being in Riverdale, me in South Riverdale, I would guess that my house would be the same as yours. To tell you the truth I never really thought about the "downstream" concept, it makes sense though.

And my shit most certainly does not stink!! Just don't ask my wife!

Paraone - not sure what solution might work if the City indeed forces disconnection. You might be looking at rejigging of your eaves to run everything to the back, or perhaps an additional downspout on the side of your house would work.

Don't think running everything to the back would work, I have a flat roof so most is already going to the back. The front eaves is really just run off from the second story shingles and slates, not sure what to call that feature really.
Hopefully they just leave the front. My garden tap in the back is busted and I don't feel like ripping the kitchen apart to fix it so a rain barrel would be awesome, no more carting watering cans through the house!

 

[Urban Shocker]

I have two flat roofs, with one rainwater downspout ( both roof evestroughs feed into it, thus water flowing from two different directions ). This rainwater downspout feeds into the big basement floor pipe from the back of the house, and joins the plumbing stack ( also at the back of the house ) from the upstairs bathroom and kitchen, in a "Y". The basement floor "breather" drain comes just after that point. Then there's an old fashioned metal sink that drains into the big basement pipe somewhere nearbye. I used to have a washing machine too, but that's disconnected. Then there's a small washroom with toilet and handbasin at the front of the house in the basement, with drains that join into the big pipe. And, in the basement floor just inside the front of the house - just before all of this sludge heads out to the main sewer pipe under the street - is a "cleanout" with a plastic cover that the roto-rooter guy will have to use one day if the dreaded tree roots ever return! And there's another "cleanout" - just in case - on the outside of the house.

My house's main exit sewer pipe joins the main exit sewer pipe of my attached neighbour's house in front of our properties in a "Y" that then joins the one under street.

... I think!

 

[Urban Shocker]

My former neighbours and I had our places waterproofed in 1993, with weeping tiles added, because of termite problems ( if you buy a Riverdale house that the sellers claim doesn't have a termite treatment history ... be very sceptical! ), but the critters can return anyway. They did, next door, this past summer. For that reason I think it is actually better to have an unfinished basement in certain parts of town ( I do ) because you can see the walls and main floor beams at all times. I had the wood framing and panelling of my basement washroom replaced with metal studs and drywall this summer for just that reason, though the amount of new damage, low down at floor level, was very minor.

This may all sound terribly expensive but, compared to the average cost of paying a monthly fee in a condo, the occasional expenses that I've incurred when things have "gone wrong" has worked out far less, over the full 17 years that I've been in the house.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Depending on where you live you can have one of two different sewer systems

1) Combined - sanitary (household) and storm (runoff) run into one big pipe.

2) Separated - different sets of pipes for sanitary and storm systems.

ELAINE: Why couldn't you just wait?

GEORGE: I was there! I saw a drain!

ELAINE: Since when is a drain a toilet?!

GEORGE: It's all pipes! What's the difference?!

ELAINE: Different pipes go to different places! You're gonna mix 'em up!

GEORGE: I'll call a plumber right now! <Goes for the phone.>

JERRY: Alright, can we just drop all the pee-pipe stuff here?

 

[Chuck]

Unless your place is different, I think your basement drain is connected to your house's waste sewage line, not the city storm sewer line.

Ya, as has already been said, if you live in the borough of Toronto, it all goes into the same pipe anyway because older parts of the city have a combined system.

I took a grad course on municipal engineering. One of the things we looked at was comparing the amount of sewage that entered Lake Ontario under a combined system versus a separate system. Combined actually isn't much worse.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Ya, as has already been said, if you live in the borough of Toronto, it all goes into the same pipe anyway because older parts of the city have a combined system.

I took a grad course on municipal engineering. One of the things we looked at was comparing the amount of sewage that entered Lake Ontario under a combined system versus a separate system. Combined actually isn't much worse.

how so? all the roofs in the old sections of toronto drain into the sewage system. wouldn't this cause more volume that would have to be treated and that talked about overflow during heavy rains? are there more costs associated with combined sewers due to the treatment process?

is there any benefit to having the sewage diluted by storm water in a combined sewer?