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Should the Toronto Islands be kept as-is?
- Thread starter Ervin
- Start date
ibhattac
New Member
anyone have any idea if the ferry service could be absorbed into the ttc/metrolinx? thoughts on what the institutional/regulatory constraints/hurdles be? presto might be a good way to make the ferry piece seamless.
(sorry nick., asked more questions, hope you don't mind).
(sorry nick., asked more questions, hope you don't mind).
FinchConnection
Active Member
I'm not suggesting that an unreasonable amount of the green space be converted but there is some that can be.
Waterfront Toronto's upgrades should include centre island. The park space is nice but its not world class. When you first leave the centre island ferry (usually with a hoard of people), the first thing that you're greeted with is a cheap concrete structure housing a pizza pizza, a concrete slab with an antique cannon atop of it, and a bunch of prefab structures that are meant to be tourist info centers. It's extremely obvious that no care was taken into its presentation as the chief gateway to the island.
For those who say leave it as be, I remind them of the following things, first development has already been allowed for both the Toronto Marina and the Royal Canadian Yacht Club (nice exclusive facilities for those who have a boat) and second with centreville amusement which owns concession spots around the island, by the beach and Hanlans point, cheap run down ones.
Also remember that centre island is chiefly used during the summer with impressive numbers of tourists and residents alike, plays host to events like the dragon boat races and marathons. Right now the economic potential for this is being overlooked. This could be a major source of revenue for the city, this could help pay for better community centers, schools, urban improvements, infrastructure updates. I find it unusual for people to recommend it be left as is so that they may return to the island once a year and see it "unchanged".
With grand landscaping (think millennium park, central park, the grounds at Versailles), maintenance of all major wildlife destinations and green spaces, the addition of waterfront commercial spaces, Toronto island could truly become world renowned.
Waterfront Toronto's upgrades should include centre island. The park space is nice but its not world class. When you first leave the centre island ferry (usually with a hoard of people), the first thing that you're greeted with is a cheap concrete structure housing a pizza pizza, a concrete slab with an antique cannon atop of it, and a bunch of prefab structures that are meant to be tourist info centers. It's extremely obvious that no care was taken into its presentation as the chief gateway to the island.
For those who say leave it as be, I remind them of the following things, first development has already been allowed for both the Toronto Marina and the Royal Canadian Yacht Club (nice exclusive facilities for those who have a boat) and second with centreville amusement which owns concession spots around the island, by the beach and Hanlans point, cheap run down ones.
Also remember that centre island is chiefly used during the summer with impressive numbers of tourists and residents alike, plays host to events like the dragon boat races and marathons. Right now the economic potential for this is being overlooked. This could be a major source of revenue for the city, this could help pay for better community centers, schools, urban improvements, infrastructure updates. I find it unusual for people to recommend it be left as is so that they may return to the island once a year and see it "unchanged".
With grand landscaping (think millennium park, central park, the grounds at Versailles), maintenance of all major wildlife destinations and green spaces, the addition of waterfront commercial spaces, Toronto island could truly become world renowned.
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kkgg7
Banned
Change does NOT necessarily mean building condos. Nobody is advocating building a cityplace or a strip mall on the island. What is being discussed here is whether the current design is good enough, and how to make the island a better place for Toronto's residents to enjoy it.
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ibhattac
New Member
It sounds like you're essentially speaking to programming the island more effectively in order to make it a year-round, repeat destination. If centre island is indeed used with impressive numbers during the summer months, then it can't be doing too badly. The issue then, it sounds like, is really about expanding use of the island and addressing the design/build/quality pieces of the gateway.
http://www.govisland.com/html/future/future.shtml and http://www.govislandpark.com/.
What are your thoughts on the Governor's Island redevelopment? Their Trust came up to Centre Island for inspiration and Toronto's own West8 is in charge of the redevelopment.
kkgg7
Banned
agree with every word you said.
This "leave everything unchanged" mindset is what prevents Toronto from moving forward. I try to avoid using the word "world class" because from experience I know many people are very sensitive to this, ot claiming we don't care about "World class". But world class doesn't mean a specific ranking according to an interntional organization. it has more to do with how a city is perceived by both its residents and its visitors. Cities are being called world class for a reason.
I am not saying the current status is horrible. The island is at least in decent shape. However, it can be a LOT better. Many get very annoyed by the word " developed" as if it is equivalent to highrise condos and large malls. I don't think anyone sane will be suggesting that. However, there is a lot that can be done to make the island more pleasant-looking, more classy, and more fun. Right now, from the look it just looks like any large green space, with trees and grassland. All you can do is to walk or BBQ on the grass, like you can do on any large green space. All structures look cheap and tacky, and the amusement park, again, just 100% genric. Are we saying it is good enough for Toronto?
Dilla
Senior Member
ibhattac
New Member
You'd be surprised at the power and weight of words on policy/program/political circles, let alone marketing. Maybe the discussion should explicitly be about 'improving' the island, and not 'developing'.
Bringing in more programming to the island sounds like its the underlying issue here. Maybe a nuit blanche/luminato piece, maybe connecting it to summerlicious, or the cne, or any number of festivals could be a start in bringing more programming to the island. Caribana and MasalaMehndiMasti used to program a day on the island, do they still do that? Granted, that's still in the summer. Maybe a Jane's Walk for the islands if none exists? Maybe Doors Open? One of the neat things about Governor's island is that they've turned it into an art free for all space, so people really get to see creative, innovative, fun, things outside the usual walk in a park/bbq on the grass with family+friends, pet some animals as long as you don't have foot and mouth disease.
Totally agree there needs to be more variety, improved furniture/amenities, cheaper access to the island. Not to say access to the island is expensive at the moment per se, but it needs to be the kind of price where you don't think about it twice, or can board the ferry with the wave of a metropass. I think the big breakthrough will be to program the island outside of the summer months. If you can do that and create a park design that works for the winter months, that could do wonders. It's not like the lake freezes over and we need icebreakers to get people there - just survival suits on the ferries.
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FinchConnection
Active Member
It sounds to me that there's a general consensus among us then that at the very least additional programming, added and refurnished amenities, an enhanced link with the main land needs to be provided.
So why hasn't city council been talking about this? A brief google search on news articles for centre island didn't turn anything up for me. Why the lack of discussion about this, how did this get left out of waterfront toronto's project?
So why hasn't city council been talking about this? A brief google search on news articles for centre island didn't turn anything up for me. Why the lack of discussion about this, how did this get left out of waterfront toronto's project?
kkgg7
Banned
because many people, out of their outdated mindset, prefer the islands (along the rest of the city) to remain "unchanged".
access is the big issue here. many cities have island, but Toronto's ferry requirement is making it so hard. I'd even propose a subway link from Union to center island (not that it will realize by year 2111). before you frown and think it is gonna destroy it entirely, New York's Roosevelt Island and Paris Île de la Cité did just fine with subway connection. I myself feel reluctant to go to the island just thinking about the hassle of "subway + streetcar + ferry".
ibhattac
New Member
who is the local councillor for the island? maybe it's time to start a petition. though, i wonder if all this would be considered gravy . . ..
LordWanker
Active Member
Has it ever occurred to you that the Island's appeal is directly related to it's isolation?
It would be more cost effective ( in terms of initial capital and on-going maintenance ) to re-establish the land link as opposed to a subway line from Union station.
adma
Superstar
Adam Vaughan.
OttoSchloss
Active Member
To shake things up they should change its name to Center Island.
Northern Light
Superstar
There have been many suggestions here for a land link to the Islands....
Might I note.......we are getting a pedestrian tunnel to the island airport, off the foot of Bathurst, and the island airport is connected to the rest of the island system.
The only requirement is to find a way on the airport site to route people who wish to visit the islands, as opposed to being passengers.
Mostly likely a short tunnel linking the terminal building to the other side of the runway (essentially Hanlan's Point)
****
As to the other suggestions raised....my thoughts:
1) No cars
2) Keep it as park space overwhelmingly
3) The amusement park in its current form, should go, whether this is replaced by a new amusement park of similar scale or other offerings such as an 'adventure playground' I'm open on.
4) 1 4-star restaurant should be added, something with high, open-able windows and a patio w/a view of the skyline. The current concessions should be replaced with more interesting 'price-accessible' offers, like a gelato place; and somewhere that specializes in picnic lunches, made and packed for you.
5) More of the open park space should be renaturalized, allowing you to experience the islands as a nature park (in part)
6) Bixi on the islands!
Might I note.......we are getting a pedestrian tunnel to the island airport, off the foot of Bathurst, and the island airport is connected to the rest of the island system.
The only requirement is to find a way on the airport site to route people who wish to visit the islands, as opposed to being passengers.
Mostly likely a short tunnel linking the terminal building to the other side of the runway (essentially Hanlan's Point)
****
As to the other suggestions raised....my thoughts:
1) No cars
2) Keep it as park space overwhelmingly
3) The amusement park in its current form, should go, whether this is replaced by a new amusement park of similar scale or other offerings such as an 'adventure playground' I'm open on.
4) 1 4-star restaurant should be added, something with high, open-able windows and a patio w/a view of the skyline. The current concessions should be replaced with more interesting 'price-accessible' offers, like a gelato place; and somewhere that specializes in picnic lunches, made and packed for you.
5) More of the open park space should be renaturalized, allowing you to experience the islands as a nature park (in part)
6) Bixi on the islands!