Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[81-717]

A high capacity line north of Bloor near the top of the city that moves people laterally is simply non-negotiable for Toronto's future.

Exactly, suggesting otherwise is akin to suggesting that the entire GO network converging at a single point (Union) & nowhere else is perfectly acceptable.

 

[JSF-1]

I come baring gifts! I started working on my video about the Finch West Line and for it I went to the library to find some info on plans for crosstown lines in the north end of the city (on Sheppard and Finch). While most of what I found related to everything east of Yonge Street so I didn't pay it much attention I did find some maps that may interest you in this thread. Specifically this first comment has the plans for the Sheppard Line back in 1985. Note the lack of a stations at Senlac, Willodale, and Bessarion, and that STC was going to be elevated:

 

[JSF-1]

This second comment is the alignments and technologies examined. The TTC looked at using 40' Buses, 60' Buses, LRT, Light-Metro, and Subway. Ultimately the TTC would decide on a Subway on Sheppard Ave as it could meet future ridership growth and was closer to planed development areas along Sheppard in North York and Scarborough. Finch was ultimately dropped as the road would require significant widening including the expropriation of 233 homes to accommodate a surface LRT or elevated Light-Metro/Heavy-Metro east of Yonge Street. By comparison Sheppard could accommodate all possibilities.

This first map is just the elevation drawing for the station at STC since you can only include 15 images in a single comment:

These maps shows the LRT alignments on Sheppard and Finch with proposed stops.

These maps show the proposed Subway (red) and Light-Metro (blue) alignments with proposed stations (Note the Light-Metro options are all elevated):

 

[JSF-1]

Finally just an image showing how the Sheppard/Finch lines could have potentially been extended West with and without a connection to GO ALRT:

 

[JSF-1]

Also here's some maps with ridership forecasts (there a tad blurry). These are done as if the corridor was an inter-regional line running from Pickering to Oakville (GO ALRT Northern Line). The jist of it is that on the Sheppard alignment ridership would peak at 17,500 pphpd in the eastbound direction while it would peak at 14,300 in the westbound direction towards Yonge. On Finch they would peak at 18,000 pphpd in the east, and 13,900 in the west. Ultimatley in the TTC's view the difference between Sheppard and Finch is negligible with Sheppard Ave still have more benefits.

 

[crs1026]

I have no data facts, but it seems obvious that the city badly needs a high quality, relatively speedy (ie faster than auto on increasingly congested roads) transit line well north of Eglinton, linking the far end of Scarborough to Etobicoke and beyond, and directly competing with the 401 in particular

The options boil down to
- extend the Sheppard line - because it is a sunk cost, and hence a cheap starting point, with considerable upside if extended in both directions so it is truly integrated to other lines
- plan a whole new line on some different route, duplicating Line 4 across the Yonge-DVP segment
- downgrade the existing Line 4 to some less expensive technology and extend at either end, likely either on or above ground

I'm guessing that the cost of duplicating the Yonge-DVP segment, using some technology other than subway, would match or exceed the savings if Sheppard is extended utilising the currently built line.

And I can't see other technologies, as good as they may be in some applications, meeting the need when the full bridge-across-top-of-city are considered.

One might argue for a line way up at the 407 - I would say yes, we need that also, and perhaps it ought to be closer to GO technology with fewer stops and much wider stop spacing, and higher top speeds - to really compete with highways 401 and 407.

So I can't object to just extending Line 4 as a vanilla TTC subway, and this seems to have less risk even if it's not the highest passenger counts of the subway system. (There was a time when the University line didn't run at nights or on weekends - funny how the ridership did turn up later). it's a pragmatic solution, and while others may be able to envision newer or more elegant modes, it's a devil we know well.

Both doable for less than the price of a 401 tunnel, I would add.

- Paul

 

[duty free]

I have no data facts, but it seems obvious that the city badly needs a high quality, relatively speedy (ie faster than auto on increasingly congested roads) transit line well north of Eglinton, linking the far end of Scarborough to Etobicoke and beyond, and directly competing with the 401 in particular

The options boil down to
- extend the Sheppard line - because it is a sunk cost, and hence a cheap starting point, with considerable upside if extended in both directions so it is truly integrated to other lines
- plan a whole new line on some different route, duplicating Line 4 across the Yonge-DVP segment
- downgrade the existing Line 4 to some less expensive technology and extend at either end, likely either on or above ground

I'm guessing that the cost of duplicating the Yonge-DVP segment, using some technology other than subway, would match or exceed the savings if Sheppard is extended utilising the currently built line.

And I can't see other technologies, as good as they may be in some applications, meeting the need when the full bridge-across-top-of-city are considered.

One might argue for a line way up at the 407 - I would say yes, we need that also, and perhaps it ought to be closer to GO technology with fewer stops and much wider stop spacing, and higher top speeds - to really compete with highways 401 and 407.

So I can't object to just extending Line 4 as a vanilla TTC subway, and this seems to have less risk even if it's not the highest passenger counts of the subway system. (There was a time when the University line didn't run at nights or on weekends - funny how the ridership did turn up later). it's a pragmatic solution, and while others may be able to envision newer or more elegant modes, it's a devil we know well.

Both doable for less than the price of a 401 tunnel, I would add.

- Paul

Not to derail this thread, but have you seen this guy's plan?

401RT

 

[T3G]

Also here's some maps with ridership forecasts (there a tad blurry). These are done as if the corridor was an inter-regional line running from Pickering to Oakville (GO ALRT Northern Line). The jist of it is that on the Sheppard alignment ridership would peak at 17,500 pphpd in the eastbound direction while it would peak at 14,300 in the westbound direction towards Yonge. On Finch they would peak at 18,000 pphpd in the east, and 13,900 in the west. Ultimatley in the TTC's view the difference between Sheppard and Finch is negligible with Sheppard Ave still have more benefits.

Very nice find! May I ask what search strategy you employed to find these? Did you know the title of the piece and that it was in the archives, or is there a specific collection dedicated to old TTC stuff that I don't know about? I know that the library has old photos but I have yet to stumble upon, in my "excavations", onto any reports or charts or anything like that. Thought only the archives had those.

 

[JSF-1]

Very nice find! May I ask what search strategy you employed to find these? Did you know the title of the piece and that it was in the archives, or is there a specific collection dedicated to old TTC stuff that I don't know about? I know that the library has old photos but I have yet to stumble upon, in my "excavations", onto any reports or charts or anything like that. Thought only the archives had those.

I just went onto the Toronto Library's website and in this instance searched to see if they had a copy of the "Advanced Rapid Transit Study", they didn't but they did have this "Sheppard/Finch Rapid Transit Corridor Study: final report" at my local branch (Cedarbrae) in the reference section so I went to take a look at it and found all of this. It's a chunky red book too, over 100 pages. They also had some other neat things about the SRT, Sheppard Line, Scarborough Expressway and other Metro documents that I'll take a look at in the future.

​

 

[T3G]

I just went onto the Toronto Library's website and in this instance searched to see if they had a copy of the "Advanced Rapid Transit Study", they didn't but they did have this "Sheppard/Finch Rapid Transit Corridor Study: final report" at my local branch (Cedarbrae) in the reference section so I went to take a look at it and found all of this. It's a chunky red book too, over 100 pages. They also had some other neat things about the SRT, Sheppard Line, Scarborough Expressway and other Metro documents that I'll take a look at in the future.

​

Right on, thanks.

 

[EYorker]

Very nice find! May I ask what search strategy you employed to find these? Did you know the title of the piece and that it was in the archives, or is there a specific collection dedicated to old TTC stuff that I don't know about? I know that the library has old photos but I have yet to stumble upon, in my "excavations", onto any reports or charts or anything like that. Thought only the archives had those.

The old Urban Affairs Library collection that was housed in the old Metro Hall have been migrated to the Toronto Reference Library branch. There is a huge collection of studies and such there to peruse as well. Of course that collection cannot be removed from the library, so plan to spend a day going through stuff.

 

[T3G]

The old Urban Affairs Library collection that was housed in the old Metro Hall have been migrated to the Toronto Reference Library branch. There is a huge collection of studies and such there to peruse as well. Of course that collection cannot be removed from the library, so plan to spend a day going through stuff.

I will have to give that a look, too. Thanks!

 

[chrisw]

Not to derail this thread, but have you seen this guy's plan?

401RT

View attachment 699066

Seems to be fantasy land to suggest discontinuing the Sheppard Line.

I think using the 407 Transitway RoW makes more sense for RT.

 

[Northern Light]

Seems to be fantasy land to suggest discontinuing the Sheppard Line.

I think using the 407 Transitway RoW makes more sense for RT.

Agreed; though, I think there is a case for running GO Trains in the 401 corridor, at much wider station spacing than subway for the most part (every 4km on average) with brief tunneled sections that allow for stations outside the ROW at their actual destination point.

Pickering GO to Pearson.

Regardless of the above, that is not currently on the table, nor is it likely to be in the next decade. Expanding the Sheppard subway is; and that will need to be finished before we revisit the need for or the form of public transit in the 401 corridor.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's getting late in the game, and the election has already happened. We should be hearing about plans for this, especially with the Finch West LRT about to come online. Also they probably need to do this in one shot, or two larger phases. Sheppard West to STC, or Sheppard West to McCowan and McCowan to Morningside.

really this line should be extended in both directions in the same shot. It really doesn't make sense to extend the line 7 stops east so it can meet line 2, and not connect it to the other section of line 1 two or three stops away at downsview or Sheppard West

That's where we are at; it's too late to do phases.