Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Rainforest]

More to the point, an extension eastwards from McCowan only makes sense on Ellesmere,

Depends on the design; I would consider either Ellesmere or the 401 corridor. The 401 option is probably cheaper, and will run faster due to having fewer stops. While the Ellesmere option would do some local service, in addition to the main goal of connecting to Lakeshore GO.

Either way, probably not Sheppard, as Sheppard has no density east of McCowan.

 

[sixrings]

Depends on the design; I would consider either Ellesmere or the 401 corridor. The 401 option is probably cheaper, and will run faster due to having fewer stops. While the Ellesmere option would do some local service, in addition to the main goal of connecting to Lakeshore GO.

Either way, probably not Sheppard, as Sheppard has no density east of McCowan.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the subway to make it to the zoo. It’s in the top five largest zoos of the world. Surely it deserves to be serviced by subway no different than scotiabank arena, the rom, the ago, the science centre.

The zoo is off of sheppard.

 

[Rainforest]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the subway to make it to the zoo. It’s in the top five largest zoos of the world. Surely it deserves to be serviced by subway no different than scotiabank arena, the rom, the ago, the science centre.

Not sure if that statement is real or sarcastic.

It should be noted that the Zoo demand is highly seasonal. You'll get a lot of riders on Summer weekends, a fair number on Summer weekdays, but rather few for most of the year. Feels like an express bus running during the high season can do a better job, avoiding the year-round operating expenses of the rail infrastructure.

 

[sixrings]

Not sure if that statement is real or sarcastic.

It should be noted that the Zoo demand is highly seasonal. You'll get a lot of riders on Summer weekends, a fair number on Summer weekdays, but rather few for most of the year. Feels like an express bus running during the high season can do a better job, avoiding the year-round operating expenses of the rail infrastructure.

Subways are 100 year investments. If we cheap out now we likely will be building in the future at a larger price. You can see how this happened with the eglinton west cancellation. We cancelled it years ago because we thought it was too expensive and now we’re building it at a significant pay upgrade. The similar thing will happen on sheppard. If we don’t commit now we will regret it in the future. Plus I like visiting the polar bears when it’s cold. It feels a lot less like a prison then.

Also people take transit far more often in the winter time because they are concerned about driving conditions. Building this subway would ensure people can get to work safely and warm underground.

 

[Rainforest]

Subways are 100 year investments. If we cheap out now we likely will be building in the future at a larger price. You can see how this happened with the eglinton west cancellation. We cancelled it years ago because we thought it was too expensive and now we’re building it at a significant pay upgrade. The similar thing will happen on sheppard. If we don’t commit now we will regret it in the future. Plus I like visiting the polar bears when it’s cold. It feels a lot less like a prison then.

Also people take transit far more often in the winter time because they are concerned about driving conditions. Building this subway would ensure people can get to work safely and warm underground.

Maybe so. But there are more destinations south of the 401. The line could hit Centennial College Progress campus, then UTSC. Furthermore, it is easier to connect to Lakeshore GO if the line runs in the 401 corridor or south of it, rather than diverts as far north as the Zoo.

 

[syn]

I'm all for an extension to the Zoo/Rogue Park. If we're already doing it, why not?

 

[afransen]

Depends on the design; I would consider either Ellesmere or the 401 corridor. The 401 option is probably cheaper, and will run faster due to having fewer stops. While the Ellesmere option would do some local service, in addition to the main goal of connecting to Lakeshore GO.

Either way, probably not Sheppard, as Sheppard has no density east of McCowan.

It likely should be a new line. For now BRT. Maybe eventually LRT or elevated light metro. If it is okay to force a transfer between STC and NYCC, I don't see a problem with a transfer at STC to Line 2 for folks coming from Pickering.

 

[afransen]

Subways are 100 year investments. If we cheap out now we likely will be building in the future at a larger price. You can see how this happened with the eglinton west cancellation. We cancelled it years ago because we thought it was too expensive and now we’re building it at a significant pay upgrade. The similar thing will happen on sheppard. If we don’t commit now we will regret it in the future. Plus I like visiting the polar bears when it’s cold. It feels a lot less like a prison then.

Also people take transit far more often in the winter time because they are concerned about driving conditions. Building this subway would ensure people can get to work safely and warm underground.

There are about 70 higher priority transit projects in the GTA than building a subway to the zoo.

 

[44 North]

A Sheppard subway extension needs to be light metro. Not a one-off contraption, could be Toronto Rockets. But if anyone realistically wants to see something built that's what you should be advocating. Two cars, max. That's 12k pphp - which is above and beyond any ridership needed this century. And likely the only way to lower costs to the point it can be built.

Just getting Sheppard to Scarb Ctr isn't funded, there's no money to fund it, there's only been a doodle on map, and people are talking about it going to the airport. I can't. I love fantasy talk, but within reason. A 6-car subway, 36k peak hour capacity, $700M/km. Why, how???

 

[Undead]

If Sheppard-McCowan is to get two subways, that place better get densified like the Ginza lol. Also some good sh*tposting by sixrings lately

 

[Coolibop]

I imagine whatever BRT route as part of the Scarborough/Durham BRT project will become the main corridor for higher order transit in future decades (as is defined by master transportation plan). Add of now, Ellesmere seems preferred, although public opposition seems to have stalled any progress of this project in the City of Toronto.

 

[blacksquirrels]

A Sheppard subway extension needs to be light metro. Not a one-off contraption, could be Toronto Rockets. But if anyone realistically wants to see something built that's what you should be advocating. Two cars, max. That's 12k pphp - which is above and beyond any ridership needed this century. And likely the only way to lower costs to the point it can be built.

Just getting Sheppard to Scarb Ctr isn't funded, there's no money to fund it, there's only been a doodle on map, and people are talking about it going to the airport. I can't. I love fantasy talk, but within reason. A 6-car subway, 36k peak hour capacity, $700M/km. Why, how???

not that i disagree with you, but i think it's even less likely they convert Line 4 to light metro or light rail. i've heard in the past that it would be > than a billion just to do so.

that's why it probably makes more sense to just combine/loop Line 4 with Line 2. that way this is never a discussion in the future to push for either line to go further North or East when it makes no sense financially to do so.

 

[Rainforest]

It likely should be a new line. For now BRT. Maybe eventually LRT or elevated light metro. If it is okay to force a transfer between STC and NYCC, I don't see a problem with a transfer at STC to Line 2 for folks coming from Pickering.

That BRT is already on the books: Durham Pulse. If I am not mistaken, it is a funded project.

A future LRT or light metro line is possible, but is a subject to favorable ridership forecasts.

 

[Rainforest]

A Sheppard subway extension needs to be light metro. Not a one-off contraption, could be Toronto Rockets. But if anyone realistically wants to see something built that's what you should be advocating. Two cars, max. That's 12k pphp - which is above and beyond any ridership needed this century. And likely the only way to lower costs to the point it can be built.

Just getting Sheppard to Scarb Ctr isn't funded, there's no money to fund it, there's only been a doodle on map, and people are talking about it going to the airport. I can't. I love fantasy talk, but within reason. A 6-car subway, 36k peak hour capacity, $700M/km. Why, how???

Not sure if using shorter trains made of wide TTC subway cars will save a lot of money. But if it will, then I'd go with the current 4-car trains.

Two cars / 12k pphp is probably too little for the central segment. It may be below 5.5k pphp today, but as the length of the subway increases, there will be more reasons to switch to the subway from the parallel routes. I think 12k or even 15k pphp can be achieved on the sufficiently long Sheppard line.

 

[sixrings]

not that i disagree with you, but i think it's even less likely they convert Line 4 to light metro or light rail. i've heard in the past that it would be > than a billion just to do so.

that's why it probably makes more sense to just combine/loop Line 4 with Line 2. that way this is never a discussion in the future to push for either line to go further North or East when it makes no sense financially to do so.

Yes a billion dollars to convert a subway to a more affordable way to extend the line is pure madness. Nooooooobody is going for that.

It’s only a real loop if it extends east and connects with Kipling as well. But think of the advantages. You get on the train and are supposed to be heading one direction. Woops I’m going the wrong way. Don’t worry it’s a loop. You don’t need to transfer. You’ll safely, warmly, comfortably get to your destination. It will just take you an extra hour. Now that my friend is world class, it is treating people with dignity and giving people what they deserve.