Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Bojaxs]

Subway west of McCowan. LRT east of McCowan.
Not sure why people are suggesting we go through the trouble of making the LRT elevated. I'm looking at Sheppard east of McCowan on Google maps, and once you shift utilities, you have enough space to build an LRT, while maintaining a 4 lane road. I'm not even sure why you would want to build an LRT east of McCowan. The line would have to end at Dean Park. Can't go over Rouge River Park. Which means it wouldn't be a very long line. A stub, LRT line.

 

[MrGoose]

Subway west of McCowan. LRT east of McCowan.
Not sure why people are suggesting we go through the trouble of making the LRT elevated. I'm looking at Sheppard east of McCowan on Google maps, and once you shift utilities, you have enough space to build an LRT, while maintaining a 4 lane road. I'm not even sure why you would want to build an LRT east of McCowan. The line would have to end at Dean Park. Can't go over Rouge River Park. Which means it wouldn't be a very long line. A stub, LRT line.

Why not extend a elevated subway to Malvern Town Center?

 

[reinventingthewheel]

I’m realistically expecting results of this study to recommend just a subway extension to McCowan. I can’t speculate on grade-level but here’s my rationale:

Why subway?

• Ease of construction at Don Mills – no need for new station/platform construction, just start tunnelling from existing platforms. New station/platform would obviously be a large expense, and it could be a tricky space to work with if we also get an Ontario Line extension through here
• Ease of use for through-running passengers – no need for transfer to alternate mode at Don Mills
• Ease of fleet management – no need for procurement of new unique fleet and OMSF, the YNSE project will likely produce a new yard or yard expansion (not sure the capacity of Davisville and how much further it can encroach on Oriole Park), which can future proof for additional trains needed by this future Sheppard extension

Why no further?

One of the goals of these transit studies is to maximize connectivity to existing density or development opportunities. As you venture east these opportunities for land redevelopment become fewer and further between. This is mostly to do with single family homes. It’s much harder to uproot several adjacent homes than one commercial plot with a large parking lot and one owner. Additionally, you gain more flak from neighbouring nimby’s. I think the same can be said about an extension to the west towards Downsview, though there’s obviously more destinations to be connected over there.

The main reason I would suggest an extension specifically to McCowan is the value of the interchange station. Anything further will tend to have diminishing returns with a high capacity metro. As an economical solution, I think express bus/BRT is an acceptable solution to the east beyond McCowan. A bus terminal is planned for construction here anyway, as part of the Scarborough subway extension.

 

[sixrings]

I wonder what public perception of elevated transit is now. People seemed to have accepted Eglinton Line and Ontario Line. I think over a decade ago there was much less appetite for elevated transit with the abysmal condition of the Gardiner and unreliability of the Scarborough RT. Though I still wonder how people will receive an elevated structure running in the middle of the road for large lengths of Sheppard.

There’s a very small section of the eglinton line elevated. Easily it could have been elevated to the airport. But people did not want that. I’m not sure people’s perception has changed at all.

 

[mossynukes]

What’s wrong with purple? I always liked the colour.

I think the more pertinent question is why is eglinton orange?

Orange is fine, it's a missing link in the system between Blue, Yellow, and Green. The even more pertinent question is why finch is grey?

 

[turbanplanner]

Orange is fine, it's a missing link in the system between Blue, Yellow, and Green. The even more pertinent question is why finch is grey?

Anything that sparks joy is now out of fashion, so colours are out

 

[duty free]

What’s wrong with purple? I always liked the colour.

I think the more pertinent question is why is eglinton orange?

purple is fine on its own, but combined with yellow + green not so much.

 

[81-717]

purple is fine on its own, but combined with yellow + green not so much.

It'll be fine when we get the blue back. Always looked nice when lines 1, 2, 3, 4 went in order (yellow, green, blue, purple). Also a nice touch that the 4 in Toronto is the same color as the 7 in NYC.

Orange is fine, it's a missing link in the system between Blue, Yellow, and Green.

So is red, which seems to be reserved for buses/trams here.

 

[duty free]

It'll be fine when we get the blue back. Always looked nice when lines 1, 2, 3, 4 went in order (yellow, green, blue, purple).

So is red, which seems to be reserved for buses/trams here.

the red reserved for buses and streetcars/trams should be pink or different shades or red + pink for different streetcar lines.

most cities just use grey for these services.

 

[T3G]

Anything that sparks joy is now out of fashion, so colours are out

Indeed, it's not bad enough to be living in a grey, bleak era of austerity and hopelessness, our design philosophy must mirror that, too, so that the plebs don't feel too at ease at any given moment.

 

[81-717]

most cities just use grey for these services.

Yeah, it actually makes sense to use gray for those rather than an LRT line that would be included on the subway map.

Indeed, it's not bad enough to be living in a grey, bleak era of austerity and hopelessness, our design philosophy must mirror that, too, so that the plebs don't feel too at ease at any given moment.

It almost feels like a cursed coincidence that the bleak era came soon after the design philosophy took over. More like the opposite, it wasn't bad enough that the design philosophy became what it is now, but on top of that the bleak era of austerity and hopelessness had to dawn upon us so that the design philosophy would be the least of our concerns

 

[Reecemartin]

Existing rolling stock is too short anyway, we're going to full length trains/stations on Sheppard. The existing trains could be lengthened, but I can't see them bothering.

Idk about that, as you know I am a huge supporter of this project but, 4 car TRs ~100m at 40tph or even 32tph are a ton of capacity, I would prioritize frequency over train length for a line like this too where a lot of connections are likely to be made. I do not see the need for 6 car sets - even if it would be nice futureproofing.

Personally, I see three viable options for rapid transit along Sheppard:

...

Option 3: LRT

• Conversion of Sheppard Subway to run low-floor LRVs
• Westward extension (partial tunnel, partial elevated, partial at-grade) westward to Sheppard West, then up Dufferin to Finch, then westward on Finch to connect to FWLRT.
• Eastward extension to either Morningside, Malvern, or Toronto Zoo via SELRT alignment
• Creates in effect an "Uptown Crosstown", similar to Eglinton through Midtown

I think if LRT was chosen high floor would make a lot more sense, would mean less significant construction needed on the U/G section - really just platform extensions. Would also make a future conversion to full subway possible.

 

[afransen]

Idk about that, as you know I am a huge supporter of this project but, 4 car TRs ~100m at 40tph or even 32tph are a ton of capacity, I would prioritize frequency over train length for a line like this too where a lot of connections are likely to be made. I do not see the need for 6 car sets - even if it would be nice futureproofing.

I think if LRT was chosen high floor would make a lot more sense, would mean less significant construction needed on the U/G section - really just platform extensions. Would also make a future conversion to full subway possible.

But is there any real reason to choose LRT, even high floor?

I agree that 4 car should be enough with increased frequency. I suppose any new underground stations can be built for eventual conversion to 6 car, and hopefully most of the new stations are surface or elevated to make it easier to protect for extending the platforms.

 

[duty free]

These are not the 3 viable options for rapid transit along Sheppard, interlining is not necessary or even desirable.

In Option 1, there is no need to interline the Sheppard line with the Spadina line. You can run Sheppard to Downsview Park and further to the Bolton Line at a minimum. This would be a true Northern Crosstown, because it'd be so much faster with the wider station spacing and grade separation. You can even elevate it after Sheppard West using some of the space there or use the bridge over the Earl Bales to transition from underground to elevated.

And an elevated line along Sheppard is doable even with the existing rolling stock and could reach Malvern Town Center travelling the south side of the CP ROW, you could transition from underground to elevated between Pharmacy and Warden

I personally don't think that there is any need for an LRT along Sheppard East, if we commit to elevated a metro line down the median of Sheppard. The additional expense of building an elevated guideway is worth the benefits of grade separation and increased travel speed.

This would be a true crosstown North. No need for changing platform heights, linear transfers, changing technologies etc. It would connect with 4 GO lines, 4 Metro Lines, with potential cheap westward extensions over the Humber.
View attachment 515972
Light purple being elevated, dark purple is underground

this is the direction i'd like to see take shape if they are going to expand Line 4 at all.

a true orbital line would be even better.

this is veering towards complete fantasy, but an orbital line like this would have connections to every TTC & GO line (excluding Lakesore East) and that would be immensely beneficial to the entire system in my opinion.

 

[nfitz]

I don't know why you'd veer so far north at Sheppard. There's no need for a second interchange with line 1. The Downsview Park and airport area would be much better served if it crossed the Barrie line a bit to the south end of the station, of not miss it entirely, and run past Centennial College.