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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

Well, it would be something close to a Crosstown North, allowing new trips like getting from Don Mills to Humber College. And there's also the massive development of the Downsview lands coming down the pipeline. Enabling more efficient east-west travel would be very valuable to encourage transit use and non-car development patterns. So I'm not sure that the connection to the Bathurst bus routes would be the sole driver of new ridership.

But yes, that $4 b has to be compared against the alternative, which apparently could get you approximately 17 km of light rail instead.
 
W. K. Lis said:
In an European or Asian city, they would have extended the Sheppard Subway westward to the Sheppard West Station AND eastward to McCowan & Sheppard (placeholder name) Station yesterday. Instead of arguing if they want to or not.
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In many European cities, they never would've built Sheppard as a subway to begin with, they would've made it into an LRT.
 
Northern Light said:
I don't think that's an entirely fair take.

I think many people here are concerned that with finite transit dollars to go around the money is spent to maximum effect.

I happen to support a westward extension of Sheppard; but I will also challenge people who tack it on a to-do list with another 50B in projects to find the funding source and ask them to similarly fund other priority items such as
Platform Edge Doors, ATC on Line 2, new rolling stock, and other high priority expansions.

That's not a knock on Sheppard West, its a suggestion that people ought not to be defensive, but be prepared to argue the case for why one project is more important than the next and show a practical means of delivery.
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I generally agree with this, but I see some problems more broadly that come from how we’ve been building transit. Most people don’t see system upgrades as the same thing as expansion. And for that, the Problem is there isn’t much of a “queue” to go off of. There’s what’s under construction today, the committed/funded projects, and everything else is a line on a map with a completion date of 2041 or what have you. So it’s understandable that people will start saying what they think is needed or not, especially when everything else lacks any kind of clarity- There is no obvious pipeline, much less mode type for projects planned after 2030.

Worth considering how for all the talk of being proactive, much of what is actually built is (politically or otherwise) reactive. We don’t know how badly Sheppard W is actually needed until Lines 5/6 open and travel patterns alter. Similarly, can Sheppard W be a stand-in for extending Line 6 to Yonge? Or building Steeles RT? Who knows?

It’s also pretty clear subways have their own political capital outside the existing transit projects, and are treated as if they are in a vacuum often times. So the pool of competition isn’t actually as big if we exclude every BRT/LRT planned.
 
Cambry Ardship said:
But yes, that $4 b has to be compared against the alternative, which apparently could get you approximately 17 km of light rail instead.
Click to expand...

But people wouldn't want to ride it, and it would end up in fighting across all levels of government for years before finally making it into a subway extension.
 
Hairball said:
Unfortunately, it seems like many people here are of the mindset that spending the billions to finish the line is a waste for something like "resiliency" - how often is there a fire? But... we do get routine weekend and evening closures of the Yonge line, so...

I used to live at Yonge/Sheppard and man it'd be 1000% better if we could also take the subway on the other side without taking the bus.
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Devil's advocate: for the cost of the Sheppard west and east extension I believe we could retrofit all of Line 1 and 2 with PSDs. That would probably do more to improve reliability and performance of the network than Line 4 being extended.
 
T3G said:
In many European cities, they never would've built Sheppard as a subway to begin with, they would've made it into an LRT.
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As an LRT, it would have been longer than just from Dufferin to McCowan, but east to the Toronto Zoo; and west to Weston Road, over the Humber River & the parks & golf courses, and continuing northwest along Albion Road meeting up with the Finch LRT (both west and east of Yonge Street) at Albion Mall.
1682463862022.png

From link.
 
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afransen said:
Devil's advocate: for the cost of the Sheppard west and east extension I believe we could retrofit all of Line 1 and 2 with PSDs. That would probably do more to improve reliability and performance of the network than Line 4 being extended.
Click to expand...
Sheppard would do more to convince people to leave the car at home than upgrading line 1 and 2 with PSD.
 
Deadpool X said:
Sheppard subway should have been built on Eglinton and Eglinton LRT should have been built on Sheppard. They built the right thing, just not at the right place.
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You got to thank Mel Lastman for the Shepard line as it was on the top list of things he wanted for his city of North York when he was Mayor. Thanks to the merger of the cities into Toronto, as Toronto Mayor, he arm twisted enough councilor to support the Sheppard Line over Eglinton when given the option as to which one of the 2 would be built along with $1 Billion to built it by the province.

If you ask transit riders which would they rider between buses or LRT's, they will chose LRT. If you ask then the same question with an subway as an 3rd, subway will win.

Now if you ask then what they would chose out of the 3 option if the funds where on hand to build 20 miles of bus line going across the city or 15 miles of LRT built in 3 years or 9 miles of subway in 10 years, you can see the choice. The choice would be LRT as it covers all or most of their travel route depending on which end see the lost of 5 miles or the lost of 2.5 miles for both ends. They would look at the 2.5 mile trip by bus as an short ride compare to 5.5 mile trip as well waiting an extra 7 years to use the subway with hope that funds can be found sooner than later to build that extra 5.5 mile extension for each end or one of them.

I have always seen the Sheppard Line ending up at the airport from day one. I did also see it going into Pickering, but not as an subway now.

I always question the subway on Eglinton in the 90's from day one as the density wasn't there like Sheppard and it would had been better to building from the Yonge Line in the first place.

People who think it doesn't snow in Europe are like the US who think we have snow all year around.
 
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