Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[OneCity]

So if history is any indication, the opposition will do everything possible to derail Ford's plans.
It doesn't matter if it delays transit construction for years or more. It doesn't matter if it adds Billions of dollars to the bill. They will use every trick they can to ruin transit. This includes legal challenges, getting their media friends on board, and harassing any supporters. The only goal of any importance for this resistance will be to stop Ford at all costs.

They cant. The Ford led Cons have basically played the opposition into political check-mate with his transit plan and all the opposition can do is make noise and fear monger the public at a higher volume as this term plays out.

This plan will undoubtedly be heavily supported in all the areas of the City impacted with serious urgency to deliver over the next decade.

Unlike what happened on City council, no party can stop Ford or the cons with a majority this term from moving forward with the designs. If any other party comes into power they almost cant overturn these fully funded lines nearing shovel ready status next term without having egg on their face. Because then they would be doing exactly what the Left on council have been busy telling voters Ford would do or was trying to do. Difference is Ford(s) present and in the past cancelled some very fragile supported, (dumb-ass) transit plans. These lines will be much improved and with the RT dead and the Yonge line overflowing good luck to those trying to garner public support to be mad at the upload and these funded lines compared to the ones council produced. Its game over on this front.

I really could care less if he wins another term as he has already done enough to set-up these lines and future ones to be better designed as well as fully funded by any party going forward. And in doing so exposed the City for its divisive partisan politics that have become increasingly problematic. All things that were well overdue.

 

[nfitz]

They cant. The Ford led Cons have basically played the opposition into political check-mate...

That's absurd. Check-mate requires contracts in place - like the Liberals did with Finch West. It seems very unlikely that Ford can achieve this with the Eglinton and Scarborough proposals, as the time-frame is too far out. Even the Ontario line seems unlikely to proceed fast enough contractually, given the level of design that's necessary for PPP, and them going back to square one on the design. I suppose the extension of Line 1 to Langstaff GO might get that far ... but I don't see anyone that opposes that capital infrastructure issues on that. Easy enough to build and not open until a relief line of some kind is in place.

Ford has deferred all the controversial Scarborough stuff past the next city and provincial elections.

 

[OneCity]

Ford has deferred all the controversial Scarborough stuff past the next city and provincial elections.

There seriously is no controversy in Scarborough regarding a multi-stop subway or a Sheppard subway. None and there never has been. The controversy resides with mainly outside anti-Ford Councillors that refused to listen to Scarborough councils requests early in David Millers term or work on better connectivity for the Centre with Ford which went to an extreme degree of opposition into Torys tenure. This divisive crap which was dilluting the greater Scarborough voters voice is no longer an issue on transit front.

There is certainly alot of voter support to fix the nonsense of the one stop line as their was support to fix the transfer a decade ago when council roadblocked Ford. He has to fix the mess left from a dysfunctional City and unlike last time with his brother he now has the power to do so and stage it accordingly so it benefits their party. Makes sense. Hacked in LRT or one stop subways will never be coming back no matter who is in power

Realy its only the downtown NDP and a few Downtown Liberals who would love to cancel the upcoming Fords plans out of spite. Overla Provincial Liberals and NDP would never consider it especially when the RT is dead and Yonge is bursting and both lines will fix the issues much better than what the City concocted. Residents also heavily support Sheppard so it will also move on. Almost all Scarborough Liberals and NDP support the SSE and Sheppard.subway. Again no controversy now that its out of the dysfunctional City

On transit infrastructure it is check mate. Ford is supporting the voters in various areas of the GTA and City. Don't take the fear mongering opposition so seriously as there is absolutely no controversy aside from the need to ensure these fixed plans get built when ready. By any party going forward.

 

[JSF-1]

You can't bring up David Miller's early tenure as being divisive for Scarborough Transit Expansion since back as far as 2006 the TTC's plan was to update the SRT to modern Innovia Trains (at the time the Mk.II series). This plan was also signed off on by Glen DeBaremaker himself. It should also be noted that DeBaremaker also supported the LRT project and if other Scarborough councillors didn't they sure didn't make a lot of noise. It wasn't until Ford started peddling his Subways, Subways, Subways junk that things changed. There was no divisiveness just political opportunism by City Councillors in Scarborough with Glen being the most blatant bandwagoner. DeBaremaker was the only Scarborough Councillor making noise and if you go back you will find his fingure prints on every plan:

SRT Modernization? Check.

Transit City LRT? Check

Subway Expansion? Check

All I see is a councillor jumping on whatever bandwagon is in style, and the rest of the mindless Scarborough Councillors mindlessly following.

Edit: There was one Scarborough Councillor that didn't jump on the bandwagon; that being Paul Ainslie of what is now Scaborough-Guildwood. He never supported the SSE since he saw that the SSE would kill the EELRT thus screwing over his constituents. Hell his election material last election made 0 mention of the SSE and he pretty much made a clean sweep of his half of the old Scarborough-Centre ward.

 

[sixrings]

Every year that passes more people live downtown or along the yonge corridor. Which means every year there will be more people opposing suburban subways because there is limited funds and not enough transit in busting areas. Which means every year this gets delayed the less likely it gets built. It's pretty much that simple.

 

[BurlOak]

That's absurd. Check-mate requires contracts in place - like the Liberals did with Finch West. It seems very unlikely that Ford can achieve this with the Eglinton and Scarborough proposals, as the time-frame is too far out. Even the Ontario line seems unlikely to proceed fast enough contractually, given the level of design that's necessary for PPP, and them going back to square one on the design. I suppose the extension of Line 1 to Langstaff GO might get that far ... but I don't see anyone that opposes that capital infrastructure issues on that. Easy enough to build and not open until a relief line of some kind is in place.

Ford has deferred all the controversial Scarborough stuff past the next city and provincial elections.

One thing that Ford could do is separate out the contract for the trains and the line.
You sign the contract for some unique trains that are not used in Toronto, and that likely forces the transit line to follow.
It is a dirty trick that shows no regard for transit planning or financial efficiency - but it is a method.

 

[OneCity]

You can't bring up David Miller's early tenure as being divisive for Scarborough Transit Expansion since back as far as 2006 the TTC's plan was to update the SRT to modern Innovia Trains (at the time the Mk.II series). This plan was also signed off on by Glen DeBaremaker himself. It should also be noted that DeBaremaker also supported the LRT project and if other Scarborough councillors didn't they sure didn't make a lot of noise. It wasn't until Ford started peddling his Subways, Subways, Subways junk that things changed. There was no divisiveness just political opportunism by City Councillors in Scarborough with Glen being the most blatant bandwagoner. DeBaremaker was the only Scarborough Councillor making noise and if you go back you will find his fingure prints on every plan:

SRT Modernization? Check.

Transit City LRT? Check

Subway Expansion? Check

All I see is a councillor jumping on whatever bandwagon is in style, and the rest of the mindless Scarborough Councillors mindlessly following.

Edit: There was one Scarborough Councillor that didn't jump on the bandwagon; that being Paul Ainslie of what is now Scaborough-Guildwood. He never supported the SSE since he saw that the SSE would kill the EELRT thus screwing over his constituents. Hell his election material last election made 0 mention of the SSE and he pretty much made a clean sweep of his half of the old Scarborough-Centre ward.

First, Scarborough council was clear in expressing a BDL subway extension was their main preference from the start of Millers term. Most residents expected the decision to be a subway extension(s) many posters on UT expected a subway extension from the start. Even many that could care less about the placement of the current transfer that many who live here do expected as much.

But once the "expert" report under Miller was swayed to push blanket, transfer LRT Scarborough Councillors agreed as we needed to move forward from being overly ignored since amalgamation and the Mayor was not interested in subway or better connections. What could Councillors really do when something had to be built and their was the one plus that the plan might cover all corner of Scarborough even if its was taking serious shortcuts. What happened was absolute apathy and lack of eastern leadership in an amalgamated City. Do you really believe this plan wouldn't have happened with a Scarborough only Mayor and the subway would have been extended decades ago? Little chance.

A large portion of the Provincial Liberals did not want Transit City in Scarborough and were trying hard behind the scenes to back peddle and they were infighting as well. They still do in-fight but aside from a few Downtown Liberals its not an issue. Scarborough Provincial Liberals are bigger Sheppard subway boosters then the PC's It was clear when the plan was called out directly on its shortcuts where all Scarborough politicians from all levels and all parties truly resided on the central lines. What was called out wasn't a shock to anyone who lives here its what most still residents expected. The apathy vote was sitting at an all time high their post Miller.

The one and only elected Scarborough politician agaisnt the subway aligned with the Downtown pro transfer LRT crowd for his own motives in his main base area. If you want to pick out the 1% lone local politician as something significant when you know exactly why he choose to go that direction you are really looking stretching matters and sadly missing the reality of how large the support to do better in Scarborough really is. Even the previous NDP Malvern Councillor was very much pro subway which said about real support.

The support to connect the Centre to the subway(s) from both ends is really not close and all Provincial parties from all levels, all stripes, and all corners of this massive Borough know this. Which is exactly why the debate is over now that's planning has been taken out of the councils divisive dysfunction. Once the reality surfaced the City could have been working on atleast a compromise solution at a minimum, instead a few mainly outside City Councillors showed their ugly heads of extreme divisive politics that help create a corner cutting, second rate plan and they refused to budge. All they did was give Ford(s) and also a more centrist Tory more support

 

[nfitz]

There seriously is no controversy in Scarborough regarding a multi-stop subway or a Sheppard subway.

If there's no controversy in Scarborough, then they probably don't deserve any more transit, if they don't make a fuss that Doug Ford and the Conservatives are screwing then by delaying the extension to Scarborough Centre unnecessarily for another four years, cancelling the Eglinton East LRT and LRT on Sheppard east of McCowan!

Or you could be wrong ... you've told many a whopper about Scarborough transit since you arrived here.

Even the far-right-wing Toronto Sun has doubts!

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/editorial-fords-subway-plan-is-bold-if-it-ever-gets-built

 

[OneCity]

If there's no controversy in Scarborough, then they probably don't deserve any more transit, if they don't make a fuss that Doug Ford and the Conservatives are screwing then by delaying the extension to Scarborough Centre unnecessarily for another four years, cancelling the Eglinton East LRT and LRT on Sheppard east of McCowan!

Or you could be wrong ... you've told many a whopper about Scarborough transit since you arrived here.

Even the far-right-wing Toronto Sun has doubts!

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/editorial-fords-subway-plan-is-bold-if-it-ever-gets-built

Big whoppers huh? What was that?

When I mentioned years ago you should probably stop wasting time talking transfer LRT because its really not supported here by voters and was dead politically? Up until a few year ago and your standard condescending rebut was that LRT was still under contract and I was new so didn't understand. Whopper?

When I mentioned even though I could personally support a Sheppard LRT with the SSE to Sheppard as a compromise but knew it wouldn't be supported by voters. Whopper?

When I explained the obvious issues of with the SMLRT and east Crosstown? Whopper?

When I explained our City media has a very pro downtown slant that doesn't help shed light on underlying details from a Scarborough perspective and was fueling greater misunderstandings to important details and fueling apathy politics? Whopper?

We are finally moving on very much in line with what ive been explaining from a political and network standpoint. All with very large local voter support for Fords plans from the local areas. The extreme trouble makers on council who clearly refused to compromise or work with others are now irrelevant and there is support to do better from all Provincial parties and politicians of all stripes locally. You dont see it but its a big win for Ford here.

Fords Core lines will be built by any party once designed as they will be supported by voters and will be insanity to cancel actual detailed plans past the critical stage. Lots of other issues the Cons will have, but these transit plans could possibly help the Conservatives for some time in he GTA if they hold power as they move toward construction. There you go another crazy whopper for you

If you really think most voters will be overly upset to see these current lines delayed to be fixed and fully funded you are far out of reality. Many are not happy with the delays across the City, but those plans by the City were certainly not going to create an uprising against Ford and the current upload now. Quite the opposite. People have waited a long time for the Citys overly dysfunctional transit planning to end and a real detailed plan to see substantial funding. Which i see as being far better now then ever before.

The EELRT was never funded and cant be held hostage to a hacked in LRT or one stop subway plan in other parts of the network. Dear lord speaking of whoppers.

 

[nfitz]

Big whoppers huh? What was that?

When I mentioned years ago you should probably stop wasting time talking transfer LRT because its really not supported here by voters and was dead politically? ...

Given you've only been a bit over 2 years, then surely that's a big whopper right there if you mentioned something to me years ago! LMAO!

The epic fail of Doug Ford has surpassed my wildest expections! I can't believe that so many are still being hoodwinked by him, and cheering on while he delays and cancels various GO and TTC projects, particularly in Scarborough!

He's slipped more years delay on this particular project ... and seems to have ditched the western extension entirely!

What are we on now - plan 6? Or is it plan 7? With equal pain for the Line 2 extension. The death of Eglinton East (which Conservative JohnTory claimed was fully funded - did Tory lie?)

Only Miller - arguably the best mayor in the history of the amalgamated city - has managed to build any rapid transit in Scarborough since Bill Davis. Both should get the Order of Canada. Doug Ford should be tarred and feathered for how much he has set back transit in Scarborough!

 

[sixrings]

Onecity is coffeey1 who if memory serves me was banned at one point for his anti left, pinko, latte drinking, biking, downtown elite rhetoric. Onecity is him on his best behaviour.

 

[nfitz]

Onecity is coffeey1 who if memory serves me was banned at one point for his anti left, pinko, latte drinking, biking, downtown elite rhetoric. Onecity is him on his best behaviour.

That seems unlikely to me ... for one, he'd likely have been banned. Secondly, he of all people wouldn't be denying previous big whoppers about Scarborough transit ... oh wait, maybe he would LOL!

 

[OneCity]

Given you've only been a bit over 2 years, then surely that's a big whopper right there if you mentioned something to me years ago! LMAO!

The epic fail of Doug Ford has surpassed my wildest expections! I can't believe that so many are still being hoodwinked by him, and cheering on while he delays and cancels various GO and TTC projects, particularly in Scarborough!

He's slipped more years delay on this particular project ... and seems to have ditched the western extension entirely!

What are we on now - plan 6? Or is it plan 7? With equal pain for the Line 2 extension. The death of Eglinton East (which Conservative JohnTory claimed was fully funded - did Tory lie?)

Only Miller - arguably the best mayor in the history of the amalgamated city - has managed to build any rapid transit in Scarborough since Bill Davis. Both should get the Order of Canada. Doug Ford should be tarred and feathered for how much he has set back transit in Scarborough!

That "best Mayor" gave us Ford nation in the aftermath of his tenure. The decisions on unions contracts and transit are heavily responsible for this. Sadly many mainly (mostly) downtown Left have gone down to new depths of divisiveness with not interest in working on solutions to the problems but protecting an unfortunate legacy. Aside from these issues thought Miller good on other issues including transit operations. But you cannot sugar coat how big these items were to the Citys future.

Tory (barely) was elected as a wedge in the first terms and is basically an empty shell ambassador for a now completely dysfunctional council. Im not even sure he would have won agaisnt Doug this time for Mayor. If Ford won in 2014 council may have got the message to do better again or things would have become more polarized in a weak Mayoral system. Im not sure so kinda happy with Tory winning thru this time period as he has no extreme positions out of the middle that shows supports all parties and needs across the entire City. He may or may not know more about the upload. I have my own assumptions here. Either way hes been helpful not to cause further chaos with Ford in full control to upload subway infrastructure to the Province and looking to put his unobstructed stamp on transit with a vendetta to prove others wrong.

Good transit planning does not introduce completely new transfers when providing new (supposedly) rapid transit like they tried to on Sheppard, even worse placing them before the Centre. What happened since the various valid flaws were brought to the forefront has been truly unfortunate. Needless to say council refused to work with the issues and Doug will now have his chance to shove what looks to be very supportable plans back at the opposition. Claiming Ford is an epic fail for not delivering the Citys current trash transit plans that many opposition attempted to pin on him and his brother is a bit odd. But I expect nothing less here. Council was the epic fail on transit and like many other from all political stripes am very Im happy to see Ford cleaning up these lines with funding commitments so we can move on

Transit City set the City back big time on transit. Time to finally move on with real plans for this great City

 

[nfitz]

Your best Mayor gave us Ford nation in the aftermath of his tenure. Millers decisions on unions contracts and transit are heavily responsible for this.

To blame a very strong effective mayor for a drug-addicted procurer of teenage prostitutes seems rather disingenuous.

And while Miller's choice to play hardball with the unions, and not caving, leading to the extended strike, surely is at contrast with Ford declaring TTC an essential service guaranteeing the union arbitration and constant pay increases. It seems bizarre to crucify Miller for fighting the union.

The rise of right-wing nationalism, populist hatred, bigotry, and racism is a world-wide movement. It can't all be laid at the feet of a few competent politicians!

 

[OneCity]

To blame a very strong effective mayor for a drug-addicted procurer of teenage prostitutes seems rather disingenuous.

And while Miller's choice to play hardball with the unions, and not caving, leading to the extended strike, surely is at contrast with Ford declaring TTC an essential service guaranteeing the union arbitration and constant pay increases. It seems bizarre to crucify Miller for fighting the union.

The rise of right-wing nationalism, populist hatred, bigotry, and racism is a world-wide movement. It can't all be laid at the feet of a few competent politicians!

If you want to compare personal lives. Miller wins. It amazing how many voter can look past that personal stuff and focus on the issues

Keep in mind we live in one of the most multicultural City in the world, moreso the areas of Fords support and to paint people with the brush of the the lowest common denominator in society is distracting from the real issues. Its disgraceful. But that's a different topic for another thread which should go over far past transit politics. If you are that polarized to believe that rhetoric is why people voted for Ford and Tory I dont what to say? But its truly sad you do.