freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Transit-killing non-gridded streets, a 1962 Oldsmobile in every carport, and Donalda Club memberships for everyone!!!
And hats....everyone has to wear hats again.
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Shabby Public Realm
- Thread starter junctionist
- Start date
Transit-killing non-gridded streets, a 1962 Oldsmobile in every carport, and Donalda Club memberships for everyone!!!
And hats....everyone has to wear hats again.
kkgg7
Banned
The entire rich world is coming to realize they need to change their expectation for welfare. Canada shouldn't be an exception.
Welfare is positive as long as it is only offered to those who have absolutely no other choice. Let's not degenerate into the selfish entitlement Greece sort of state. It is nice that things are given out for free, but others actually worked for it.
adma
Superstar
And--big deal. Who cares. The built legacy's still worth cherishing.
I guess if it were up to you, things like this shouldn't have been listed
...or else, the fact that it was listed can be framed a political fix by a suburban Rob Ford crony (i.e. Michael Thompson). Yeah, sure...
Tarantulal Downpours
Banned
Honestly, most people I know that voted for Ford were less than thrilled to do so, but what alternative was there; Smitherman? It was a catch 22 election. We'd be no better off with him in power.
Your generalizations are very precious. I guess you know every suburbanite, personally? Why are you so whiney?
It's too late for some streets, like Norden Cr. It's already been obliterated, mostly. I've spoken to Jaye Robinson about protecting the remaining original homes in Don Mills, and she seems to like the idea, but it's ultimately something that is left in the hands of the residents. Maybe those women's shelters that Freshcutgrass mentioned aren't such a bad idea after all? They might scare away new buyers looking to McMansionize?
You know your architecture better than most on here. Why don't you work on a letter about the importance in preserving what remains of the original Don Mills and send it to Councillor Robinson, and ask her to distribute it to the residents in her ward?
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freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Again...the contrary is true. The good stuff should be saved...and I mourn the loss of Bata & Four Seasons as much as the next guy. I love that international style drive-through bank. If they could have actually stuck to the "Utopian" part, it would be a very interesting place. Same with the area just south...I love the Science Centre, Leaside Towers, Coca Cola headquarters, etc, etc....with the Don Valley flowing through it all. I think this whole area could have been fantastic. This is the one place in Toronto where I could see monorails too. LOL!!
Oh well.
That's just not true. Toronto just seemed toe in a very populist mood, and didn't use good judgment. Even someone half asleep should have known Ford's platform was completely full of shit, and we had a decade of experience of Rob Ford clown behaviour under our belt.....there's no excuse. That tranny that ran a few years ago would have been a better choice.
I might get sarcastic...but I never whine.
Sorry...but any residential street within a certain periphery of Bridal Path (Leslie) is going to have a perceived land value as to make those original little bungalows relegated to tear-down status. There's not much that can be done about that....shelters or not. I knew a doctor who bought a lot and built a McMansion. She bitched about how difficult it was to conform to the 30 foot height limit on the street, which seemed to be the only restriction there was. Her house looked ridiculous with the original little houses on either side of her. It just amplified the architectural blandness of her larger house.
RichA
Banned
They did this on the streets north of Sheppard and east of Yonge. in North York. Old, tiny WW2 houses, single story but on 125ft lots got torn down and megahomes put up. Give it time, the entire street will go the way of her lot. The last townhomes sold in that area went for $750,000 each and have almost no land around them.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
And I wonder how many of them use that subway so conveniently running through their vicinity. I bet they drive the short distance to Bayview Village.
RichA
Banned
Might be an interesting study to find out who walks where
City or suburb, if a store or whatever, is within "X" distance, how many urbanites versus suburbanites would walk it? I think if urbanites are willing to walk a longer distance, it could be because there is more to distract them on the journey than picket-fence houses.
City or suburb, if a store or whatever, is within "X" distance, how many urbanites versus suburbanites would walk it? I think if urbanites are willing to walk a longer distance, it could be because there is more to distract them on the journey than picket-fence houses.
jje1000
Senior Member
Yes, this. When I walk from my house to the local shopping mall, the trip is mindnumbingly dull and takes an eternity. The only views I get are the backyards of houses, wide arterial and the occasional creek/park/strip mall.
Tewder
Senior Member
Funnily enough, in many suburban centres the public realm is fastidiously maintained.
mrgrieves
Active Member
Sadly Toronto is a cheap city that does not take enough pride in its public spaces. Historically, Toronto started off as a blue-collar industrial city and still retains some of that attitude. I think the city is moving in the right direction in terms of improving public spaces, especially Yonge Street and Bloor Street. But these seem to be one-off things. Overall I don't think the city "get's it". Sort of like someone with no sense of style. I see the trees that get planted Queen West and they have these ugly decorations around them. I doubt the trees will be maintained properly and will just be dead in a few years.
Everyone looks at Chicago and I noticed someone pointed out they have all those impoverished areas with poor infrastructure. But infrastructure is something different than beautiful public space. In Montreal for example, you will see no overhead power lines anywhere in the city centre. Even some poorer areas still have a certain charm to them.
In Vancouver as well they have done a great job in terms of making that city (which is much younger than TO with no nice architecture) beautiful. At least in the core of the city, the rest of the city is another story.
A city reflects its citizens and Torontonians really don't seem to care that the city is shabby and has wires and wooden poles polluting the sky.
Everyone looks at Chicago and I noticed someone pointed out they have all those impoverished areas with poor infrastructure. But infrastructure is something different than beautiful public space. In Montreal for example, you will see no overhead power lines anywhere in the city centre. Even some poorer areas still have a certain charm to them.
In Vancouver as well they have done a great job in terms of making that city (which is much younger than TO with no nice architecture) beautiful. At least in the core of the city, the rest of the city is another story.
A city reflects its citizens and Torontonians really don't seem to care that the city is shabby and has wires and wooden poles polluting the sky.
junctionist
Senior Member
Many people who live in all parts of the city care about the public realm or would care if it was raised in conversation, but somehow, these issues get marginalized. It doesn't matter what their background is. Toronto didn't start off as an industrial place, but rather a centre for Upper Canada, including its elites, but like countless cities grew to larger proportions through industrialization. (It should be noted that the French tried to start a settlement earlier in the 18th century as a trading centre which seemed to have done well upon the completion of Fort Rouille, but was in its infancy peripheral and sacrificed when France retreated from invading British forces in 1759.) Many working class people own and maintain attractive houses in Toronto. I don't think there's one particular narrative about how cities develop beauty in the public realm, for instance by people not being cheap. Sometimes it's all in the leadership of a mayor, a brilliant planner, the creative financing schemes of city hall bureaucrats, grassroots campaigns, influential critics in the media, big events, and decisions made in the city's formative eras. Whichever way that improvement is realized, people often start to love it and defend it once the results are clear, especially if there are economic gains.
Dan416
Senior Member
^ Well said! I think you're right.
Tewder
Senior Member
We talked about using this thread to raise examples that address the public realm in Toronto, so in an effort to do this I'm posting the following pic by ToroTo that was posted in the L Tower thread yesterday...
With so much development happening in the immediate vicinity how is it that the Esplanade should look like this? Again, this is not some side street in the bad part of town, right?
... and let's not wait for some grand vision. There should be a plan in place for reasonable maintenance and finishings. Perhaps the developers in the area should be made to contribute?
17 Feb.
With so much development happening in the immediate vicinity how is it that the Esplanade should look like this? Again, this is not some side street in the bad part of town, right?
... and let's not wait for some grand vision. There should be a plan in place for reasonable maintenance and finishings. Perhaps the developers in the area should be made to contribute?
Ladies Mile
Active Member
Could someone please tell me where these cities are that have wonderful sidewalks and streets and spotless parks?
It's sure not New York, the majority of which looks as if someone dropped it. Ditto London and double ditto Rome (although that's part of Rome's charm). I suppose central Paris is reasonably well-kept if you overlook the acres of dog crap and graffiti. Most cities the world over have appalling public spaces.
True, places like Boston and Venice and Bern have quaint cobblestone centers, but those are hardly appropriate for modern development, utilities or traffic. Someone whose idea of a spotless public realm equals Nantucket on a Sunday morning is not who I want in charge of urban policy.
Either we learn to find value in the realm we have or we take the challenge in inventing a new way to deal with our climate, congestion and built environment.
It's sure not New York, the majority of which looks as if someone dropped it. Ditto London and double ditto Rome (although that's part of Rome's charm). I suppose central Paris is reasonably well-kept if you overlook the acres of dog crap and graffiti. Most cities the world over have appalling public spaces.
True, places like Boston and Venice and Bern have quaint cobblestone centers, but those are hardly appropriate for modern development, utilities or traffic. Someone whose idea of a spotless public realm equals Nantucket on a Sunday morning is not who I want in charge of urban policy.
Either we learn to find value in the realm we have or we take the challenge in inventing a new way to deal with our climate, congestion and built environment.