Shabby Public Realm

[Red October]

I'm not sure I understand why burying the wires and providing an urban standard of sidewalk paving, width and furniture will lead to a loss of vibrancy. London buries the wires and paves its sidewalks decently as a matter of course, yet miraculously its street life makes Toronto seem very small town, even in our "shabby but vibrant" neighbourhoods. It's a false dichotomy to suggest that if we fix our incredibly sad and shabby public realm we'll lose our hipster (in our own eyes if nobody else's) soul.

When I get home I'll post pictures of some of London's "great" public realm in areas.

 

[pman]

When I get home I'll post pictures of some of London's "great" public realm in areas.

You might start by comparing Oxford Street from Marble Arch to Oxford Circus to Yonge Street, noting how much wider and better paved their sidewalks are, and how traffic is restricted to one lane in each direction (and no private cars). Since both streets have a subway running along them it's a reasonably apples to apples comparison.

But if you don't like London, why not compare major streets in any of Manhattan, Paris or Boston with those of Toronto? They're all at least as "vibrant" as we are, and they at least seem to try to provide a decently designed, constructed and maintained public realm along significant streets. To get back to my original point - improving the public realm doesn't mean we would sacrifice our "vibrant" nature. It just means Toronto would be somewhat less ugly.

 

[Red October]

You might start by comparing Oxford Street from Marble Arch to Oxford Circus to Yonge Street, noting how much wider and better paved their sidewalks are, and how traffic is restricted to one lane in each direction (and no private cars). Since both streets have a subway running along them it's a reasonably apples to apples comparison.

But if you don't like London, why not compare major streets in any of Manhattan, Paris or Boston with those of Toronto?

I never said I don't like London, I'm just saying it isn't perfect like it seems you were trying to imply. And a better comparison would be Oxford Street from Oxford Circus to Tottenham Court Rd, which is much seedier.

Also about 90% of the city has underwent revitalisation a la Bloor Street in preparation for the Olympics, so a lot of the problems similar to Toronto have been rectified recently.

 

[taal]

Based solely on public realm elements (i.e. side walk / lighting / paving / infrastructure) Toronto is an ugly city guys, get over it. Sure some streets are a little better now i.e. Bloor, Queens Quay (in 3 years).

But compared to just about every other city (large or medium in size) we lack in just about every aspect of public infrastructure.
I think if anything its remarkable how vibrant many of our streets are given the above. Or maybe its related someone.

I like using Queen W for example, honestly I'd take that over Oxford / just about all the other high streets in London any day (Note that there are many lesser known London streets that I'd love to have here are are comparable). I should re-word that, I'll take the content of Queen W but sure I'd love for the public realm to match, and I wouldn't think that would impact the vibrancy of Queen.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Shabby Public Realm...Controlling weed growth...and other thoughts...

the discussion on postering inspired me to resurrect this thread..

another thing that seems prevalent in Toronto and non-existent in other major cities is weeds growing everywhere.. in many cases the ones growing at the base of trees are becoming mini trees themselves

nstuch and All: I looked at these pictures and I noticed the complaints about Toronto's
deteriorating roads and sidewalks...Some of these pictures remind me of what I see
in some Philadelphia neighborhoods...just add some dirt and/or litter and label them as such...

I do understand that foliage growth like this can be tough to control and can become a problem but I feel that deteriorating
crucial infrastructure should have priority when
funding becomes available...Bridges and the like in particular...

LI MIKE

 

[Urban Shocker]

Ain't that the truth.

 

[RC8]

Why is the public realm in Yorkville pretty much spotless?

 

[Lenser]

A powerful, well-oiled BIA, one would assume.

 

[Goldie]

Why is the public realm in Yorkville pretty much spotless?

Perhaps the local residents take matters into their own hands (cut the grass, remove weeds, etc.).
It's amazing what a difference it can make when one adopts a self-help attitude rather than waiting for city bureaucrats to take action.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

If you look back at photos from the 1950's up until now you'll see the same thing, it's always been like this. It might be a little worse today with aging underground infrastructure that requires repair, but not a whole lot worse. Most of those cuts in the sidewalks are repaired once the ground settles, but sometimes some areas do get forgotten. What is worse now that I really notice is the amount of gum on the sidewalks, tagging and garbage on the ground. Garbage is cleaned up regularly but it collects again quickly, people litter more now than they did even 20 years ago. In the end become involved in your community, if there needs to be repairs made or things fixed call 3-1-1.

 

[Tewder]

Goldie and Lenser are both right, in the absence of civic leadership on these issues some areas/streets are taking it into their own hands to make the improvements needed... and let's face it there is big money at stake in Yorkville driving these improvements.

I think it's great to see public engagement in these issues and lots of improvements can be made this way. For a city of Toronto's size and stature, however, this just isn't adequate. It would be nice to see these public efforts coalesce into some sort of politicized voice that could start to lobby for the levels of civic support (funding/stewardship) that the people deserve.

 

[vatche]

Don't u think the city should enforce bylaws for littering. If ur caught littering, 100$ fine. That's it. People will be more careful.

 

[Joe R.]

Don't u think the city should enforce bylaws for littering. If ur caught littering, 100$ fine. That's it. People will be more careful.

That won't make a difference. People in large crowds or in places of solitude will litter because no one will catch them and question their behaviour.

 

[old boy]

Goldie and Lenser are both right, in the absence of civic leadership on these issues some areas/streets are taking it into their own hands to make the improvements needed... and let's face it there is big money at stake in Yorkville driving these improvements.

I think it's great to see public engagement in these issues and lots of improvements can be made this way. For a city of Toronto's size and stature, however, this just isn't adequate. It would be nice to see these public efforts coalesce into some sort of politicized voice that could start to lobby for the levels of civic support (funding/stewardship) that the people deserve.

Agreed. A nascent culture of civic pride needs some nurturing from city hall. In the meantime, it is encouraging that some areas of the city are stepping up with their own local improvements . In Toronto, mainly because of such rapid downtown transformation, it will take a while for cultural stewardship values to catch up with all the physical changes, and the influx of new residents. The fashion in which the core and waterfront precincts transform surprises in a Toronto manner, that somehow delights and frustrates at the same time. This forum is littered with examples of the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

[junctionist]

It would help if City Hall bureaucrats were more positive in dealing with people's suggestions. The default response to any suggestion is usually "we don't have the money", which has a way of discouraging ordinary people who aren't activists from even thinking about improvements informally. Obviously the city doesn't budget to be prepared to do every reasonable improvement the moment it receives peoples' suggestions (financially speaking, it wouldn't work), but more responses along the lines of "yes, that's a good idea that we would be able to implement in the next decade" would encourage people, especially if after that time they actually see the improvement. I guess some people are discouraged if they have to wait, but I suspect that more positive responses would nurture public interest in improvement and feelings of mutual respect, trust, and solidarity between public servants and ordinary citizens.