September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[gristle]

^Seems obvious to me: he believes there's more to the story than islamic terrorists. Like who funded the terrorists? CIA or bin laden? bin laden was a rogue CIA operative, with known ties to the Bush family. Stuff like that is what's he's trying to say....

In fact, he has said nothing like this.

However, just because he's too lazy to express his views coherently, doesn't mean he is wrong.

Incorrect. He has expressed a view, but that's all. In order for his view to be correct he must provide verifiable evidence and and a coherent account of what he asserts too place. He has done nothing of the sort.

Trading in feelings, opinions and unfounded beliefs is in no way a substitute for actual evidence and an account of what took place that can be factually validated.

 

[urbandreamer]

^Nonsense. Almost everyone uses second hand "evidence" at some point to validate an argument. Even in a paper, citing sources arguably is second hand info--what if the author was lying, biased, or just plain wrong yet the student etc used it as a "fact?"

Kamuix is obviously a lazy conspiracy theorist, but that fact doesn't make him wrong! Actually, the fact most people on this board thinks he is crazy is a sign to this contrarian thinker that he is right!

 

[gristle]

^Nonsense. Almost everyone uses second hand "evidence" at some point to validate an argument. Even in a paper, citing sources arguably is second hand info--what if the author was lying, biased, or just plain wrong yet the student etc used it as a "fact?"

Kamuix is obviously a lazy conspiracy theorist, but that fact doesn't make him wrong! Actually, the fact most people on this board thinks he is crazy is a sign to this contrarian thinker that he is right!

If you read his posts you will see that Kamuix has failed to provide any clear account regarding anything. Hence the reason why he has retreated into vagueness and pleas for open-mindedness.

If one is to support a claim for the existence of a conspiracy, an actual account of that conspiracy must be provided. Typically, this would include timelines, key players, rationales and the like. In addition, a sufficient body of verifiable evidence is required in order to support and legitimate assertions regarding a conspiracy. So far, he has not even made reference to a specific government.

I would invite you to try proceed legally with your charge regarding Mossad involvement without the benefit of any evidence. See how far you get.

 

[Fresh Start]

Incorrect. He has expressed a view, but that's all. In order for his view to be correct he must provide verifiable evidence and and a coherent account of what he asserts too place. He has done nothing of the sort.

Trading in feelings, opinions and unfounded beliefs is in no way a substitute for actual evidence and an account of what took place that can be factually validated.

You say that as if the MSM has provided all the verifiable evidence and an unbiased coherent account of what they assert took place. A lot of what happened was hidden or downplayed from the general public's attention. There's at least enough contradictory testimony and evidence out there to support the claim that something might have happened other than what we were told did happen. A lot of fearmongering and posturing was done in 9/11's aftermath which led into the extinction of at least 200 Iraqi civilian lives for every one life lost in the Twin Towers. I'm not saying that Kamuix is right but it is a healthy, patriotic even, thing to have the courage to openly question authority and seek out the deeper meanings and truisms behind the government's motives and mechanisms.

My two cents.

 

[gristle]

The point is, evidence was provided - which is something that Kamuix and the host of conspiracy-mongers have failed to do in all these years. That evidence is available, can be examined and possibly refuted. That's saying much more than any of the myriad of conspiracy theories that are floating around out there. And to make my point clear Fresh Start, I haven't "said" anything. I am challenging Kamuix to either refute the investigation results with contrary evidence, or provide both an account and the supporting evidence for what he claims took place. He has not done any of this.

You claim that a lot of what happened was hidden or downplayed. If it was "hidden" as you suppose, how would you know about it?

You suggest that there is "contrary" testimony and evidence (but you don't say what), and that somehow indicates that you and everyone else were not told about something. Again, how would you know about something you were not told about, or for which you have no information? Contrary evidence requires just that: evidence.

As for Kamuix being right or not, he has provided no reasonable proof whatsoever upon which to draw any conclusions. His assumption of a conspiracy is both so total and so vague that one can hardly call it healthy, patriotic or courageous. I would go one step further and say that Kamuix's suspicion of government has a likeness to a racist attitude in that he holds a contemptuous view for the entire concept of government and everyone in it - never once bothering to make any specific distinctions, differentiations or careful analysis thereof. I would hardly deem that attitude as a search for meaning. In fact, there is no search under way, he has already drawn his own personal conclusions.

Regarding Iraq, 9/11 was not the sole motivation for the invasion of Iraq. There was the issue of weapons of mass destruction as well. The invasion was certainly not supported by everyone in the U.S. government (and not all branches of government are consulted on such matters). This is all quite clear. It was also made quite clear from the investigation of other governments that the Iraqi government had no relationship with Al Queda, and the search for WMD's had turned up nothing. Even after the invasion, there was and is still no evidence of any WMD's.

There is nothing wrong with asking reasonable questions, but there is a big difference between asking questions and coming to grand conspiratorial conclusions without any evidence to support those claims.

 

[urbandreamer]

^Total bunk. Do you work for the gov't?

 

[gristle]

Your response is meaningless.

 

[Kamuix]

Grissie wouldn't of bothered to keep posting if I or whoever is as crazy as he tries to make them look. He's still feeding the government lies and using the one line written differently each time to try and justify us being crazy all at once. He's obviously in denial for so many reasons, one being that he he only see's it in black or white with no gray area. It's either show "proof" or don't discuss it and if you do and/or think there's a conspiracy you're a crazy delirious person. Sound familiar? Also refusing to acknowledge how governments have taken countries over in the past and the fact that it's important to be skeptical of your government and ask questions etc.. Believe what the media/establishment/government tells you and shut up.

And when you discuss something like the more obvious lies behind the drug war or if you're just explaining logic behind something that he's doing, instead of addressing it he just accuses you of going off topic. He's obviously using that to defend himself from having to discuss outside the box and allows him to keep shooting out the stupid government lies. So in Grissie's mind the governments innocent until proven guilty and what he calls proof is questionable.

He also turns things around and tries to say my suspicions towards the government may indicate that i have a racist attitude, sound familiar to anyone?

 

[urbandreamer]

Speaking of the drug war...it was really the drug war that sponsored 911.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Speaking of the drug war...it was really the drug war that sponsored 911.

i thought it was the 911 fee on my cell phone bill?

 

[PinkLucy]

Now that's ^^^ a conspiracy we should all be up in arms about!

 

[ganjavih]

i thought it was the 911 fee on my cell phone bill?

I thought it was the redesign of the Porsche 911 Turbo.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I am unamused because the original drug war comment didn't refer to 9/11.

The 911 fee makes sense though. Imagine how much money those evil corporate types got as worried people around the world dialed 911 as they watched the twin towers fall... Gah, just thinking about them in their fancy yachts makes me sick!

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

wait a sec, the shriners build hospitals, people also call 911 to go to hospitals. it's a masonic conspiracy now!

 

[gristle]

Grissie wouldn't of bothered to keep posting if I or whoever is as crazy as he tries to make them look.

Kamuix, where is your evidence? Still don't have any?

It's either show "proof" or don't discuss it and if you do and/or think there's a conspiracy you're a crazy delirious person.

Good thing you mentioned the "crazy delirious" parts about your lack of evidence or of a verifiable account to back up your grand, global conspiracy claims.

Also refusing to acknowledge how governments have taken countries over in the past and the fact that it's important to be skeptical of your government and ask questions etc..

You typically lack specifics and always generalize.

There are degrees of skepticism, Kamuix, and skepticism does not automatically add up to being evidence of a conspiracy. That's just your version of skepticism.

And when you discuss something like the more obvious lies behind the drug war or if you're just explaining logic behind something that he's doing, instead of addressing it he just accuses you of going off topic.

This thread does have a topic, but I'm sure you see a conspiracy behind that too.

He's obviously using that to defend himself from having to discuss outside the box and allows him to keep shooting out the stupid government lies.

You are evidently confused. Threads have topics and the usual convention is to stay on topic. And careful about raising up what you think goes on in my mind, I will ask you to show proof.

Still waiting for that 9/11 conspiracy evidence Kamuix. You know, the stuff that you are clearly incapable of producing.

So in Grissie's mind the governments innocent until proven guilty...

So in Kamuix's mind, everyone is guilty until proven innocent. And everyone is closed-minded until Kamuix deems them to be open-minded. And everyone has been duped by the grand government/media/industry conspiracy until Kamuix judges them to be otherwise.

Gee whiz, doesn't that sound familiar to anyone?