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Self-Driving Vehicles/Autonomous Vehicle Technology

Couldn't. Care. Less. Last accident was 10+ years ago. Last accident that was my fault was Almost 30 years ago. How can they hike my rates if I haven't had an accident. They'd be persecuting all drivers who don't ( or can't) afford new cars with this technology. It will be a very slow transition to automated for this among many reasons.

Who votes most? Old people. Who will resist this? Old people. It'll be 20+ years before insurance companies can go after analog drivers.
They will jack up your rates because you, like all of us, are a fundamentally worse driver than a computer. It's that simple. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing most of us do on a day to day basis and that's because humans are just terrible at driving.

A driverless future is coming. It's going to be the biggest revolution in cars since, well, cars.
 
They will jack up your rates because you, like all of us, are a fundamentally worse driver than a computer. It's that simple. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing most of us do on a day to day basis and that's because humans are just terrible at driving.

A driverless future is coming. It's going to be the biggest revolution in cars since, well, cars.

Go right ahead. Ironically, it will mean I will sell my econobox Honda Fit daily driver, but I'll still keep my sports car, which pollutes more. Either way I'll save money by being down to one car.

I still don't believe you'll be able to jack rates. The used car market is huge, yet somehow you think people will all go along with paying more. It's not like you can snap your fingers and everyone will jump on buying a brand new car. There are still lots of 20+ year old cars on the road today and this won't change overnight.

And as that survey showed no ones actually interested in a self driving car. Also, you'll be persecuting the people least able to afford this change who buy used cars. Any government that tries to implement - or allows insurance companies to do this - won't survive the next election. I'm not denying it won't happen, it just won't happen as fast you think.
 
Insurance rates change with experience which is an equation with both a numerator and a denominator. Fewer owned cars means fewer customers which changes the denominator. Costs get spread over fewer people. Self driving cars might mean lower payouts (do the really expensive accidents happen only in the city?) which changes the numerator. I don't see how one can predict where that will lead overall.

I still find this discussion hugely citycentric. (Maybe there is a narrowminded urban elite, after all). A self driving vehicle is not going to get me on the gravel road that leads to the rail trail where I cycle. Zipcar doesn't want me attaching a bike rack to their vehicle for the day. My most-used shopping mall has an unimproved parking lot that fills with water when it rains. I don't want a computer parking me in the deepest part of the puddles just because its databank remembers that is where the parking spaces are.

Self driving is great for urban hailing applications, and maybe for freeway driving on the open road. That is a useful part of the overall mix. But people will still want to own their vehicle, and there are too many places that city dwellers want to go to that will require human driving. Many cities restrict access in personal vehicles for reasons of congestion, but those living there still own personal vehicles.

- Paul
 
A self driving vehicle is not going to get me on the gravel road that leads to the rail trail where I cycle.

I don't see why not. Intercity and long-distance trips are by far the most useful immediate commercial application (trucking industry).

A rental self-driving car might have a boundary they can't leave but your private self driving car won't have that.
 
Go right ahead. Ironically, it will mean I will sell my econobox Honda Fit daily driver, but I'll still keep my sports car, which pollutes more. Either way I'll save money by being down to one car.

I still don't believe you'll be able to jack rates. The used car market is huge, yet somehow you think people will all go along with paying more. It's not like you can snap your fingers and everyone will jump on buying a brand new car. There are still lots of 20+ year old cars on the road today and this won't change overnight.

And as that survey showed no ones actually interested in a self driving car. Also, you'll be persecuting the people least able to afford this change who buy used cars. Any government that tries to implement - or allows insurance companies to do this - won't survive the next election. I'm not denying it won't happen, it just won't happen as fast you think.
People weren't interested in those noisy contraptions they used to call horseless carriages either, but they caught on (and have been subsidized by the government ever since). Yes the used car market is huge, but most cars only get so old before they're taken off the road altogether. There will obviously be a transition period where human driven cars are still around.

Eliminating human drivers will drastically reduce collisions, which will in turn reduce injuries and deaths. There will be major savings in costs of health care, infrastructure, and maintenance. Governments won't be able to ignore that forever.

Insurance rates change with experience which is an equation with both a numerator and a denominator. Fewer owned cars means fewer customers which changes the denominator. Costs get spread over fewer people. Self driving cars might mean lower payouts (do the really expensive accidents happen only in the city?) which changes the numerator. I don't see how one can predict where that will lead overall.

I still find this discussion hugely citycentric. (Maybe there is a narrowminded urban elite, after all). A self driving vehicle is not going to get me on the gravel road that leads to the rail trail where I cycle. Zipcar doesn't want me attaching a bike rack to their vehicle for the day. My most-used shopping mall has an unimproved parking lot that fills with water when it rains. I don't want a computer parking me in the deepest part of the puddles just because its databank remembers that is where the parking spaces are.

Self driving is great for urban hailing applications, and maybe for freeway driving on the open road. That is a useful part of the overall mix. But people will still want to own their vehicle, and there are too many places that city dwellers want to go to that will require human driving. Many cities restrict access in personal vehicles for reasons of congestion, but those living there still own personal vehicles.

- Paul
I think the biggest flaw in your logic is that you're equating autonomous cars with collective ownership. And while those two trends will probably support each other, there's nothing about autonomous cars that would prevent you from buying one for yourself. And if you do that you could attach bikes to it and go on all the dirt roads you want. Autonomous cars have nothing to do with "urban elite", whatever that means.

As for the shopping mall with puddles, do you know for sure that a car that drives itself would park in a puddle? Maybe it would specifically avoid a parking spot with a puddle. Maybe you could change a setting to do that. Maybe you could tell it to park in a specific spot.
 
Who votes most? Old people. Who will resist this? Old people. It'll be 20+ years before insurance companies can go after analog drivers.

Old people as a demographic have a ton to gain from driverless cars. For every stereotypical curmudgeon who would cling to their traditional car there should be many seniors who fear loosing the capacity to drive and the massive loss of freedom that entails.
 
I think the biggest flaw in your logic is that you're equating autonomous cars with collective ownership. And while those two trends will probably support each other, there's nothing about autonomous cars that would prevent you from buying one for yourself.

Well, actually, the discussion was indeed going down the line of 'with automated hailing cars, no one will need to own their own vehicle any more'. That's what I was reacting to. If people find they only require communal services, great.....but I suspect that a great many will find that too limiting on their mobility, and will continue to own a vehicle (likely self driving) which they will frequently need to operate manually because something in their journey is outside the vehicle's thought process.

My exmples may not have resonated, but I keep finding new ones. I drove someone to Ikea yesterday to buy a wall unit. I pick him up, and the single lane driveway to his apartment building was blocked by a waiting taxi. If you hail an automated cab, how long will it wait outside your apartment building before giving up? What if it is blocking another vehicle while it waits? (I honked, and the cabbie kindly pulled into a vacant parking spot so I could get by. Would the cab-bot know to do that? Would my vehicle even get impatient, or would it just sit patiently until the path is clear?)

We bring the purchase back, but his building super has a rule that big items have to go in the back door, so I have to squeeze down the service laneway (backing up) to get to the back door. I have to spot the vehicle so we can unload the large and heavy boxes from the hatchback. How do I tell the cab-bot to do that? It may know the street grid, and how to find the main entrance, but can it improvise?

It's coming, but it's still quite complicated as yet.

- Paul
 
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We bring the purchase back, but his building super has a rule that big items have to go in the back door, so I have to squeeze down the service laneway (backing up) to get to the back door. I have to spot the vehicle so we can unload the large and heavy boxes from the hatchback. How do I tell the cab-bot to do that? It may know the street grid, and how to find the main entrance, but can it improvise?

Actually, the basic AI developed (at Google at least) doesn't have any mapping knowledge. It creates a map of the local area on the fly from sensors, and goes from there. Stale data (new lights, construction, temporary obstacles like parades) are a huge issue if you start from the assumption the map is correct; so they don't.

A map interface will exist strictly to make the user interface nicer because giving an address is far easier than giving specific left/right directions ahead of every turn; but on-the-fly directions will almost certainly be available too. Difference being, it won't blindly follow your directions and drive into a lake (unlike some humans with their GPS based mapping device).

Since the software understand hand signals (police officers directing traffic) I wouldn't be surprised if eventually there was a "follow me" mode where you can walk the vehicle to where you need it to be waving it into place when on rough or poorly defined terrain (grass). No company is at the point of implementing this yet but it seems like a doable interface.
 
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Old people as a demographic have a ton to gain from driverless cars. For every stereotypical curmudgeon who would cling to their traditional car there should be many seniors who fear loosing the capacity to drive and the massive loss of freedom that entails.

The only way those seniors buy in is if they're still be allowed to drive would be if autonomous driving is allowed for drunk drivers. The theory being that both are similar, and as I said earlier, the only thing appealing about autonomous vehicles is the fact you can get loaded and let your car drive you home. When it does get to that level I'd be fine with it. Until it gets to that point it's useless.
 
People weren't interested in those noisy contraptions they used to call horseless carriages either, but they caught on (and have been subsidized by the government ever since). Yes the used car market is huge, but most cars only get so old before they're taken off the road altogether. There will obviously be a transition period where human driven cars are still around.

And some of those horseless carriages are still on the road. No, they're not daily drivers, but there is still 60,70,80,90 and even a century old cars that are grandfathered and allowed to be on the road. I would imagine the same thing will happen with all ice cars when automated drivers become widespread. The government can't just force people to sell them or not allow people to drive them. We can't limit gun control,in this country ( and especially in the US). Ice autos will always be allowed on the roads. Besides, If the autonomous vehicles are so smart, avoiding the horseless carriages won't take much more programming.
 
They will jack up your rates because you, like all of us, are a fundamentally worse driver than a computer. It's that simple. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing most of us do on a day to day basis and that's because humans are just terrible at driving.

A driverless future is coming. It's going to be the biggest revolution in cars since, well, cars.

How can they jack up my rates? My probablility of getting in an accident hasn't changed. In fact it's been reduced by automated cars. They'll brake faster in advance of issues vs a human. Giving me more warning time as well.
 
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I don't see why not. Intercity and long-distance trips are by far the most useful immediate commercial application (trucking industry).

A rental self-driving car might have a boundary they can't leave but your private self driving car won't have that.

How does intercity deliveries save money if they still have to employ a driver to babysit the steering wheel? Until it's fully autonomous it's pointless.
 
how will you get a drivers license in the future? Do you just have to know how to enter your destination In a gps? What happens if there's a local or massive outage? What do you do if there's a defect in the sensors of your car? No one will have experience in driving an actual car.?
 

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