Scramble Crossings (City of Toronto) (Yonge/Dundas, Yonge/Bloor, Bay/Bloor)

[the lemur]

The one exception could be Moscow where there are hundreds of underground pedestrian crossings. Underpasses there are like little malls, with kiosks and vendors, plus provide some shelter from the elements. Moscow's intersections look ridiculous, as well, which probably has something to do with it.

Since most of what one assumes Toronto's busiest pedestrian intersections are already overlapped by PATH the need for a second, elevated, pedestrian crossing is a bit redundant.

There's quite a few underground crossings in London (marked 'subway'!), mostly where the road is too wide and/or busy to be crossed safely at grade.

 

[Markster]

Continuing to reply to year old posts...

Which is why you'll often find the corners fenced off and pedestrians forced onto the bridges. Here's a photo I took of such an interesection in Shenzhen in 2008:

You don't need to go to China to find urban intersections where pedestrians are forced to use bridges/tunnels.

Portage & Main in Winnipeg:

There's a small circular mall under the intersection, connecting the 4 corners. And chest high concrete barricades keeping you away from the cars.

 

[ShonTron]

No different than how we have "Toronto" on our signs instead of "City of Toronto", or "Mississauga" instead of "City of Mississauga".

It's officially Quebec without "City", which is only added to distinguish it from the Province. It's just Quebec on maps also.

The same for New York (but not for Kansas City).

Here's what a major Interstate junction looks like in Albany: http://goo.gl/maps/QcMRK

 

[nfitz]

The same for New York (but not for Kansas City).

Here's what a major Interstate junction looks like in Albany: http://goo.gl/maps/QcMRK

LOL ... good link. I drove through that intersection last week, and I've been scratching my head since reading this thread, thinking "don't the signs towards New York City in New York State just say "New York"?

I wonder what the signs in Connecticut and New Jersey say ... though I can't say I've ever felt confused driving into New York City from any direction, or driving in Quebec (though I was first licensed in Quebec ... so perhaps not a fair test).

 

[the lemur]

LOL ... good link. I drove through that intersection last week, and I've been scratching my head since reading this thread, thinking "don't the signs towards New York City in New York State just say "New York"?

I wonder what the signs in Connecticut and New Jersey say ... though I can't say I've ever felt confused driving into New York City from any direction, or driving in Quebec (though I was first licensed in Quebec ... so perhaps not a fair test).

I-95 near Secaucus:

http://goo.gl/maps/Un6Tj

And just outside Greenwich:

http://goo.gl/maps/RCyGa

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

So where should the next scramble crossing go?

The logical one for me would be at Yonge and Eglinton.

 

[ehlow]

So where should the next scramble crossing go?

The logical one for me would be at Yonge and Eglinton.

Yes, Yonge-Eg has the pedestrian traffic to support it, but it's best to wait till after 2020 when the Crosstown opens so that bus performance isn't negatively impacted by the scramble, not to mention all the construction happening now. Or, when they're re-designing the intersection for Eglinton connects while finishing the Crosstown station, that would be a good time to do it.

This article may give some ideas on what the next one should be:
http://spacing.ca/toronto/2011/06/0...oronto-with-the-top-25-walking-intersections/

I'd probably go with... Yonge & College. Keep pedestrianizing Yonge street downtown.

 

[the lemur]

The same for New York (but not for Kansas City).

From what I can tell, though, road signs in adjoining states don't distinguish between Kansas City, MO and Kansas City, KS. I guess that's because they're effectively just two halves of the same city and if you find yourself in the wrong one, just cross the river?

 

[khris]

I'd like to see the scramble intersections have their lighting phases changed.
Have a scramble go for 1 full minute. Then 1 full minute of cars moving. Then back to scramble and so on. None of this you can go east/west, then north south, then scramble, all cars stopped. Make all people wait, then all cars wait.

 

[Johnny Au]

Las Vegas has pedestrian bridges at Las Vegas and Tropicana as well.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I'd like to see the scramble intersections have their lighting phases changed.
Have a scramble go for 1 full minute. Then 1 full minute of cars moving. Then back to scramble and so on. None of this you can go east/west, then north south, then scramble, all cars stopped. Make all people wait, then all cars wait.

That sounds good as well.

 

[LNahid2000]

I'd like to see the scramble intersections have their lighting phases changed.
Have a scramble go for 1 full minute. Then 1 full minute of cars moving. Then back to scramble and so on. None of this you can go east/west, then north south, then scramble, all cars stopped. Make all people wait, then all cars wait.

I doubt that work work very well at such a busy intersection like Yonge/Dundas. The sidewalks are so narrow that there would be pedestrian traffic jams. Also, I bet most pedestrians would jaywalk there anyway during the cars phase.

 

[typezed]

Also, I bet most pedestrians would jaywalk there anyway during the cars phase.

Seem to remember reading that this is why the crossings are implemented in the symbolic, wishy-washy, semi-useless way that they are. It was determined that too many people wouldn't obey the pedestrian signals and just walk into the street on green anyway, and since we don't really want to enforce anything better keep things the way they are but add this third phase where everyone can walk any which way because it's kind of cool. I'm all for a more walkable city with better infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists, but these scrambles really would be better if they cleared the intersections of pedestrians while the cars were moving and allowed the vehicles to make right turns and get themselves off onto the other street if that's where they need to go. If pedestrian traffic jams ever became a thing the timing could be changed to extend the pedestrian phase.

 

[rbt]

If pedestrian traffic jams ever became a thing the timing could be changed to extend the pedestrian phase.

Pedestrian traffic jams are why the scramble was added in the first place.

That North West corner was particularly bad with pedestrians waiting nearly 4 feet out into the street and others at the same time squished against the wall of the store and lines backing up down the stairwell into the subway station with people trying to get out.

 

[khris]

Pedestrian traffic jams are why the scramble was added in the first place.

That North West corner was particularly bad with pedestrians waiting nearly 4 feet out into the street and others at the same time squished against the wall of the store and lines backing up down the stairwell into the subway station with people trying to get out.

I say pick that building housing Forever 21 and move it somewhere else. I think it's a matter of time before something like that happens anyway. It's only going to get busier at this intersection.