Roncesvalles Reconstruction

[W. K. Lis]

From www.roncesvallesvillage.ca:

On July 23, 2011 from 10:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m., you are invited to come to Roncesvalles Village for a special celebration.

After years of planning and work, our street is ready for its closeup! Nearly one hundred new trees planted to the highest standards anywhere in the City, new pedestrian spaces, a bike and transit-friendly streetscape, all supporting one of the most dynamic and friendly main streets anywhere in Toronto… no wonder we want to show off!

Our grand opening event will feature special events and fun for kids, a historical display of the Roncesvalles of old, a ribbon-cutting ceremony celebrating the return of streetcars to Roncesvalles after a long absence, live music, a bicycle decorating contest sponsored by West Side Cycle, a drumming circle sponsored by the Classical Music Conservatory, guided tours of the street via free hop-on-hop-off streetcars, and of course a sidewalk sale featuring the very best of what our shops have to offer. It promises to be a great day on Roncy!

The commemoration of the return of streetcars to Roncesvalles will take place shortly after 10:00 a.m. at the High Park Library lawn at 228 Roncesvalles Avenue at Wright Avenue

 

[drum118]

July 14
Most of TTC platforms are missing TTC stop signs.

Hydro has yet to finish their work.

All the platforms have bike lane markers on them

 

[Dan416]

That doesn't strike me as a very safe way to mix bikes and streetcar stops...

 

[reaperexpress]

That doesn't strike me as a very safe way to mix bikes and streetcar stops...

No, ideally bikes would be able to go around the back of the stop, eliminating the conflict with people boarding the streetcar. But this layout is better than having nothing because it increases safety, accessibility and comfort for streetcar riders while providing a bit of space for cyclists.

These markings should make it clear to transit riders that cyclists will cross the platform. As long as cyclists stop for stopped streetcars, it should be fine.

 

[Tuscani01]

A sign saying "Cyclists Stop when Streetcar is stopped" should be put up here. I would say from my experience on streetcars that maybe 5% of cyclists actually stop when a streetcar reaches a stop. Its quite annoying, and I have seen a few close calls.

 

[ShonTron]

5%?

While I'll concede that this is amongst the most common HTA offense committed by cyclists, I would say 60% make a full, complete stop until the streetcar doors are closed. Another 25 percent stop, then proceed while streetcar doors are still open against the rule of the law but otherwise relatively safe. Another 10% only slow and sort of yield to passengers. Then there are 5% who just don't bother.

My daily commute involves the 505 or 506, so I have a good idea about this.

Having to go up a slight grade over the bumpout curve might help, I don't think signs are needed.

 

[DSC]

A sign saying "Cyclists Stop when Streetcar is stopped" should be put up here. I would say from my experience on streetcars that maybe 5% of cyclists actually stop when a streetcar reaches a stop. Its quite annoying, and I have seen a few close calls.

Toronto (or maybe just modern society) seems to think that putting up signs solves problems. Of course some signage is necessary but it gets carried to extremes and our sidewalks are covered by signage. Some signs ("Red Light Camera Ahead") strike me as quite useless, and ugly. These cameras are to identify people going through red lights so maybe the sign should say "Stop on Red Light" (I'm exaggerating) and thus deal with the 'problem' - going through a red light - not the consequences - photographic evidence. I agree with ShonTron that signs at these streetcar stops are not necessary and that the lane markings PLUS ENFORCEMENT will work pretty well. (In fact, if signs were erected they should tell waiting passengers NOT to block the cycle lane as much as telling cyclists to stop when a streetcar is loading/unloading.)

 

[EnviroTO]

Toronto (or maybe just modern society) seems to think that putting up signs solves problems.

Its definitely modern society, not Toronto specifically. There has been a warning label or sign attached to virtually everything, usually stating the obvious, to the point that many don't read them any more. For this situation I'm seriously hoping that cyclists can understand that there is a transit shelter on the right and a stopped streetcar on the left so there could be conflicts. My bigger concern is that it isn't clear who has right-of-way when there is no streetcar. There is an awful lot of bicycle signs. The good thing is that the shelter opens to the sidewalk, the bad thing is there is advertisements blocking pedestrians from view of cyclists until they step out.

 

[reaperexpress]

Toronto (or maybe just modern society) seems to think that putting up signs solves problems. Of course some signage is necessary but it gets carried to extremes and our sidewalks are covered by signage. Some signs ("Red Light Camera Ahead") strike me as quite useless, and ugly. These cameras are to identify people going through red lights so maybe the sign should say "Stop on Red Light" (I'm exaggerating) and thus deal with the 'problem' - going through a red light - not the consequences - photographic evidence. I agree with ShonTron that signs at these streetcar stops are not necessary and that the lane markings PLUS ENFORCEMENT will work pretty well. (In fact, if signs were erected they should tell waiting passengers NOT to block the cycle lane as much as telling cyclists to stop when a streetcar is loading/unloading.)

Thank you! I've always been annoyed with the way the city would rather put up a sign to explain things than make it obvious.

I think now that there are bike symbols on the platform it is clear that cyclists have priority when there is no streetcar. Maybe if they just put a dotted "yield" line across the leading edge of the platform it would remind cyclists to stop.

Its definitely modern society, not Toronto specifically. There has been a warning label or sign attached to virtually everything, usually stating the obvious, to the point that many don't read them any more. For this situation I'm seriously hoping that cyclists can understand that there is a transit shelter on the right and a stopped streetcar on the left so there could be conflicts. My bigger concern is that it isn't clear who has right-of-way when there is no streetcar. There is an awful lot of bicycle signs. The good thing is that the shelter opens to the sidewalk, the bad thing is there is advertisements blocking pedestrians from view of cyclists until they step out.

I'd say it's North American society, not all modern societies. I don't know if Europeans or Asians would sue a coffee shop for not telling them coffee is hot, or have signs saying "yield to pedestrians in crosswalk".

Toronto also has many redundant signs. It's not uncommon to see "No Parking: Snow Route", "No Stopping" and "No Parking" signs on the same pole

Many European countries simply make the rules apparent from the way infrastructure is built rather than putting up tons of signs. For example, you won't find as many "this lane is a bike lane" signs or as many yield signs in the Netherlands because bike lanes are already clearly marked on the road, and pavement markings show who has priority.

One thing that bothers me about Toronto in particular is that bus lanes are marked the same way as HOV lanes, and drivers are expected to look for a sign explaining who can use the lane. Is it so hard to write BUS ONLY on the lane?

 

[ShonTron]

It looks like we will see redundant signage sooner or later according to "The Fixer". I guess looking for another bad cyclists angle, he ends up blasting cab drivers instead.

http://www.thestar.com/news/fixer/a...y-traffic-on-streetcar-loading-platforms?bn=1

 

[adma]

I did nearly get a biker run-in waiting on Roncy this past week--well, I intuitively, generously waved him through; but it struck me then that there may be a problem here...

 

[drum118]

The one thing I have seen so far this year for the platforms, vehicles parked right up to the edge of the ramp, preventing cycles from using the platforms in the first place.

I have seen cycles ignore the platforms all together.

Have seen delivery trucks with their rear sticking out onto the track.

The next set of platforms to be built will be on the east side of Roncesvalles on Queen St. The existing eastbound platform will be remove.

If these platforms work like TTC and the city hope they will, they will start showing up on various lines where there is on street parking during the rush hour period these days.

Oh happy days are here again as riders will not have to worry about traffic anymore......................Ahhhhhhhhhh-------------here comes the cycles.......................splat

 

[Dan416]

LOL...."splat".

 

[W. K. Lis]

Compared with some European cities where the waiting area is between the tram (streetcar) and the bicycle lane, we'll have to see if putting the bicycle lane between the streetcar and the waiting area works better or not.

 

[Armbruster]

Compared with some European cities where the waiting area is between the tram (streetcar) and the bicycle lane, we'll have to see if putting the bicycle lane between the streetcar and the waiting area works better or not.

The problem with the bisected configuration is that the transit platform space becomes unavailable for other uses. I am also unconvinced it is any safer than the Roncesvalles design, since pedestrians must still cross a bike lane to reach the platform; and as we know, there will always be the odd transit rider, cyclist, and parking driver who will seem determined to prove any design unsafe. In the end, we have to rely on basic common sense, and I think the Roncesvalles design seems pretty straightforward (with the new sharrow markings), albeit unique.

Near the Film Buff and Cherry Bomb, the bumpouts have become nice little gathering places where people can sit and enjoy a coffee or ice cream. This would not be possible with a bisected platform that is exclusively for transit riders.