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Rob Ford's Toronto

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GavinTheAlmighty said:
My next-door neighbour is still a hardcore Ford supporter. He's a very smart guy, works in consulting. But when it comes to Ford, he just seems to have found his position and refuses to deviate. Perhaps it's a matter of pride, as in not wanting to admit that he was wrong. There's definitely a significant element of him just being straight-up a selfish, spiteful jerk. He frequently talks about how he's glad that "despite his personal problems, Ford sticks it to the socialists on council". When pressed for details, "he's not raising my taxes". When asked to rationalize that against the Scarborough subway tax, "it's just a 0.25% tax raise". When explained that a) it's 1.6%, and b) a raise is a raise, he falls back to "Well the other options will be worse. Chow will just tax and spend and appease the unions."

He's a smart guy but he's set in his ways. He's bought into a lot of the Ford mythology and misinformation, and he just refuses to budge. In a way, it's actually much more frustrating. His support is based off of things that simply aren't true, and he refuses to acknowledge them as lies, despite clearly being smart enough to think critically about them. If he were a stupid person, I'd at least understand, but he isn't.
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Did you ask him what he would do if/when Ford loses?
 
GavinTheAlmighty said:
My next-door neighbour is still a hardcore Ford supporter. He's a very smart guy, works in consulting. But when it comes to Ford, he just seems to have found his position and refuses to deviate. Perhaps it's a matter of pride, as in not wanting to admit that he was wrong. There's definitely a significant element of him just being straight-up a selfish, spiteful jerk. He frequently talks about how he's glad that "despite his personal problems, Ford sticks it to the socialists on council". When pressed for details, "he's not raising my taxes". When asked to rationalize that against the Scarborough subway tax, "it's just a 0.25% tax raise". When explained that a) it's 1.6%, and b) a raise is a raise, he falls back to "Well the other options will be worse. Chow will just tax and spend and appease the unions."

He's a smart guy but he's set in his ways. He's bought into a lot of the Ford mythology and misinformation, and he just refuses to budge. In a way, it's actually much more frustrating. His support is based off of things that simply aren't true, and he refuses to acknowledge them as lies, despite clearly being smart enough to think critically about them. If he were a stupid person, I'd at least understand, but he isn't.
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What type of consulting does he do?
 
SFO said:
People keep trying to define the nature of Ford's core support, but can't seem to pin it down. Maybe it's disgruntled older white folks, or maybe it's impoverished new Canadians, or maybe it's this area of the city or that one. But they're not asking the right question. It's very simple, folks: "selfish, spiteful jerks" are his true demographic, and they come from all walks of life and all districts.
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That is essentially the bottom line, but there's a lot of toxic variables thrown into the motivations of Il Douche's fanbase that could probably fill pages of dialogue here. There are contradictions depending on which facet of Fraud Nayshun you happen to be talking about. Some of them are apparently in opposition to one another, or so you'd think (older white reactionaries vs. immigrants, say), and there are even contradictory elements within the same subgroups at times, i.e. non-white immigrants supporting an openly racist pig. In many ways, it's such a shaky foundation it's positively amazing it's managed to hold up so far.
 
At this point anyone who still supports Ford either (a) simply hasn't been paying attention (b) is a criminal or moron (c) is trolling in meatspace*.

None of them are worth your time. Dust off your shoulders and move on.

*ETA or some combination thereof.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
What type of consulting does he do?
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He describes it as freelance work in the political sector, providing advice to governments, etc. I don't know the specific details except that he works from home and he's very successful.

Videodrome said:
Did you ask him what he would do if/when Ford loses?
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Nah. I imagine he'd just pout and blame every single bad thing that happens in this city on socialists, and vote ultraconservative in 2018.

Like I said, he can be a jerk.
 
"5 things you didn't know about David Soknacki"
http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/08/5_things_you_didnt_know_about_david_soknacki/

I understand he also plays classical piano. He built his own business. As far as I know, he didn't inherit it.

What I can't understand is why he is not gaining traction in this campaign. He's been in it from the beginning. I would like to vote for the guy, but I don't like the idea of throwing away my vote on a candidate who has no chance of winning against RoFo.

He looks like a rocket scientist compared to Rob. He's from Scarb., so can't be accused by FN of being a Manhattanite Hipster from downtown.

Reminds me of the Professor on Gilligan's Island. Building radios out of cocoanuts, but couldn't get them off "Ford's Island".
 
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casita said:
"5 things you didn't know about David Soknacki"
http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/08/5_things_you_didnt_know_about_david_soknacki/

I understand he also plays classical piano. He built his own business. As far as I know, he didn't inherit it.

What I can't understand is why he is not gaining traction in this campaign. He's been in it from the beginning. I would like to vote for the guy, but I don't like the idea of throwing away my vote on a candidate who has no chance of winning against RoFo.

He looks like a rocket scientist compared to Rob. He's from Scarb., so can't be accused by FN of being a Manhattanite Hipster from downtown.

Reminds me of the Professor on Gilligan's Island. Building radios out of cocoanuts, but couldn't get them off "Ford's Island".
Click to expand...

It's frustrating that Soknacki could be a victim of extreme (but justified) paranoia among non-idiot voters of doing anything that might help Ford get re-elected. [insert plea for ranked balloting here]
 
GavinTheAlmighty said:
My next-door neighbour is still a hardcore Ford supporter. He's a very smart guy, works in consulting. But when it comes to Ford, he just seems to have found his position and refuses to deviate. Perhaps it's a matter of pride, as in not wanting to admit that he was wrong. There's definitely a significant element of him just being straight-up a selfish, spiteful jerk. He frequently talks about how he's glad that "despite his personal problems, Ford sticks it to the socialists on council". When pressed for details, "he's not raising my taxes". When asked to rationalize that against the Scarborough subway tax, "it's just a 0.25% tax raise". When explained that a) it's 1.6%, and b) a raise is a raise, he falls back to "Well the other options will be worse. Chow will just tax and spend and appease the unions."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was being a bit facetious, but I know a guy who's very intelligent and well educated and a Ford supporter (though not a hardcore one, I could see him switching to Tory). Like many of them, he's an older man and a social misfit who feels disenfranchised in modern society and is change-averse. It's not Ford's policies that he necessarily supports, as he understands that overbuilding subways is a bad idea, it's the fact he views the entirety of city hall as incompetent and working 100% against his own interests, so he enjoys seeing Ford put the screws to them.

That said I have no doubt Ford supporters are of significantly below average intelligence simply because it takes a LOT to ride his crapslide if you have critical thinking skills. SFO nailed why he has support -- it's just age-old standard retail populism, no secret there, and it does come from all walks of life, just with a strong bias towards those who have a hard time putting the dots together.
 
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SFO said:
It's frustrating that Soknacki could be a victim of extreme (but justified) paranoia among non-idiot voters of doing anything that might help Ford get re-elected. [insert plea for ranked balloting here]
Click to expand...

RoDoFo are now little more than domestic terrorists, supported by a loose collection of misguided SSJs (selfish, spiteful jerks)who only gain purchase because of our ridiculous FPTP ballot system. Ranked ballots would banish the threat of future freaks of nature like MINO and reduce the SSJs to the pathetic fringe minority status that they deserve. It can't happen soon enough.
 
GavinTheAlmighty said:
My next-door neighbour is still a hardcore Ford supporter. He's a very smart guy, works in consulting. But when it comes to Ford, he just seems to have found his position and refuses to deviate. Perhaps it's a matter of pride, as in not wanting to admit that he was wrong. There's definitely a significant element of him just being straight-up a selfish, spiteful jerk. He frequently talks about how he's glad that "despite his personal problems, Ford sticks it to the socialists on council". When pressed for details, "he's not raising my taxes". When asked to rationalize that against the Scarborough subway tax, "it's just a 0.25% tax raise". When explained that a) it's 1.6%, and b) a raise is a raise, he falls back to "Well the other options will be worse. Chow will just tax and spend and appease the unions."

He's a smart guy but he's set in his ways. He's bought into a lot of the Ford mythology and misinformation, and he just refuses to budge. In a way, it's actually much more frustrating. His support is based off of things that simply aren't true, and he refuses to acknowledge them as lies, despite clearly being smart enough to think critically about them. If he were a stupid person, I'd at least understand, but he isn't.
Click to expand...

Hate to burst your bubble, but he probably isn't 'smart' at all. At least not by any competent contemporary definition of 'smart'.
 
DTGeek said:
That said I have no doubt Ford supporters are of significantly below average intelligence simply because it takes a LOT to ride his crapslide if you have critical thinking skills. SFO nailed why he has support -- it's just age-old standard retail populism, no secret there, and it does come from all walks of life, just with a strong bias towards those who have a hard time putting the dots together.
Click to expand...

I think even the intelligence question is misguided: both extremely smart and extremely dumb people can be selfish, spiteful jerks, and all types in between. Obviously selfish and spiteful come easier to those who are small-minded too, but I think the smart "SSJs" just don't give a shit about the cognitive dissonance and anti-logic of claiming Ford is a worthy candidate. Whatever his bad behaviour, he's just a means to their selfish, spiteful ends. The only thing smart "SSJs" add to the picture is elaborate yet essentially faulty defences.
 
casita said:
"5 things you didn't know about David Soknacki"
http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/08/5_things_you_didnt_know_about_david_soknacki/

I understand he also plays classical piano. He built his own business. As far as I know, he didn't inherit it.

What I can't understand is why he is not gaining traction in this campaign. He's been in it from the beginning. I would like to vote for the guy, but I don't like the idea of throwing away my vote on a candidate who has no chance of winning against RoFo.

He looks like a rocket scientist compared to Rob. He's from Scarb., so can't be accused by FN of being a Manhattanite Hipster from downtown.

Reminds me of the Professor on Gilligan's Island. Building radios out of cocoanuts, but couldn't get them off "Ford's Island".
Click to expand...

No charisma in an election where Ford's 'charisma' means that he gets absolutely no attention whatsoever. It's like all the air's sucked out of the room by Ford.

Normally, in an election without Ford, he would have a chance because people would be more attentive towards policy, but with Ford, it's all about rhetoric and lies. Maybe next election, but definitely not this one.
 
Leeanne was not at court today, it was put over to Aug.26. According to Moose news the crown is pressing a fifth charge against her of dangerous driving. Ouch. The piece does not name who represented her at court this a.m. I honestly would be wondering if my friend the mayor had brought new heat by withdrawing his influence if I were her. The web site mentions that a resolution was in the works.
 
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