Rob Ford's Toronto

[Blovertis]

Peace, order and good government -quoting Obama won't help. And besides, we aren't talking about a council that is unelected, nor are we talking about a political system whereby the mandate of the chief magistrate is so profoundly important. Not to mention, the option of not holding an election as per this ruling is well within the law, which BTW comes into force by a democratically elected legislature. So throwing the "democracy" book is again an oversimplication at best, and implying that it would be undemocratic not to do so is misleading at worst.

I wasn't aware I was quoting Barack Obama, but maybe that's an indication I'm onto something

Sorry to stoop so low by playing the "democracy" card, but if the mandate of the chief magistrate is so profoundly unimportant, why have we spent two years and 10,000 posts on this thread denouncing Rob Ford's every move?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Blovertis:

If you want to compare Rob Ford to Obama, be my guest. Mileage will of course varies

On the matter of democracy - I didn't know that the forum is a proxy for the role of the mayor in the functioning of the city. And besides, if you are saying it is that important, shouldn't one be more careful about their actions as mayor? It makes his failure even less excusable. Plus, like I have eluded to earlier - the by-election isn't the only choice - and not choosing that option doesn't equate to it being undemocratic. Personally, I categorically reject any attempt by anyone to tell me what's democratic and what's not in this particular context beyond what's in the law.

AoD

 

[spider]

In a by-election, no such issues exist because the councillor seat isn't in the election and will still be there should that councillor not be successful in their run for Mayor.

Boy, we're going to have a very crowded field if a by-election is indeed called. Everybody can run without fear of losing their councillor seat. Mammolitti is guaranteed as is Doug Ford if his brother can't run. Michael Thompson is considering a bid as is Denzil Minan-Wong. Adam Vaughan and Shelly Carroll can test the waters

.

No, I suggest that all the councillors who run for mayor in a bye-election must be required to resign their seat because one of them is presumably going to win leaving their current position vacant and triggering a subsequent bye-election. The bye-election should be held for the office of Mayor and the councillor seats vacated by contestants thus saving a never ending string of bye-elections.

This procedure would eliminate frivolous candidates from seeking face time at no risk.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's not a bad idea, though it will require legislative changes and that won't happen in time.

AoD

 

[freshcutgrass]

And besides, we aren't talking about a council that is unelected, nor are we talking about a political system whereby the mandate of the chief magistrate is so profoundly important.

Yea...Rob Ford certainly underlines the idea we have a weak mayor system. ha ha

Council has effectively been running without a mayor for the last year. Or is Stinz the mayor. Hard to tell.

And I would argue Council has been working better the last year without a mayor, than the first year with one.

So as you can see, strange days have been with us all along...and will continue, especially if Ford gets his stay until his appeal is through and remains as "mayor" until such time.

I want him to clear his desk out in 12 days, but I'm almost curious to see how council treats him during his stay. Then there's his other two court cases. There's great entertainment potential here folks. Thanks to the weak mayor system, the city can just carry on with business with the resident clown still sitting there.

 

[Blovertis]

And besides, if you are saying it is that important, shouldn't one be more careful about their actions as mayor? It makes his failure even less excusable.

Just to be clear, I am not defending Rob Ford here. He is on his way out and rightly so (and I say that as a Conservative). But his successor should be chosen by a vote of the people, particularly since the interregnum promises to be almost two years. The position of chief magistrate has more power than it used to and has always had tremendous symbolic weight. How he or she is selected matters.

I'm not just limiting myself to what the law allows: I'm talking about what, in my view, is right.

And far from telling you (or anyone else here) what to think, I am simply expressing an opinion. You may choose to agree or disagree.

 

[spider]

I'm not just limiting myself to what the law allows: I'm talking about what, in my view, is right.

Are you quoting from Mayor Ford?

 

[freshcutgrass]

But his successor should be chosen by a vote of the people

The people voted in Council. Let them do their job. Perhaps the choice of council during this process will have a more profound affect on those who vote for councillors. And perhaps that is more important than the choice for mayor?

A bye-election is unlikely anyway. If Ford gets his appeal and stay, he will be the mayor. If he does not get his stay, but does get his appeal, they cannot hold a bye-election until the results of that appeal has happened. That would not be until spring, and puts us too close to the next election to justify the cost.

The position of chief magistrate has more power than it used to and has always had tremendous symbolic weight.

In a Post Ford Toronto, I have a feeling things will be different.

 

[King of Kensington]

Any idea how many people from "Ford Nation" showed up at the game last night to support their hero. Given that I can't find anything about this in the media (except that his team lost), I suspect the turnout was pathetically low.

 

[Blovertis]

Are you quoting from Mayor Ford?

I realize that "Ford" serves as an all-purpose epithet on this board, so I won't bite. But I will ask this question: Do you believe that the law and morality precisely overlap? I don't.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Always loved the assumption that someone that has a different point of view is mentally inferior. Shows a certain arrogance.

Nah, voting for a drunk, loudmouth wife beater who lied about many things (school, drug bust, money appearing from the money fairies for subways) is not a different point of view. It's shirking your responsibility to understand who you're voting to elect.

 

[BurlOak]

Seriously, did you just re-try the case in your head based on Blatch's commentary and find Ford not guilty? Welcome to Ford Nation, delusional supporters wing.

He lost because he was guilty. You might not like that truth, but it stands.

I think there was already a link to the judges ruling but there was not one to Blatchford's article. I think Blatchford argued more on emotion (i.e. the people voted for Ford and not the judge), but my arguement was based on facts. He was guilty of conflict of interest, but the Act allows a loophole for small amounts of money. I did not follow the case in much detail, but obviously Ford did not do a good job arguing this point. He probably was trying to argue that it was not a conflict of interest.

 

[PinkLucy]

That's pretty much what he said, despite having been told numerous times that it was a conflict. The man seems to believe he can make up his own rules, and the rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to him. He still stubbornly says there wasn't a conflict. He could have avoided this so easily but being so pig-headed, he wouldn't listen and got himself in this mess.

 

[Ice_Burn]

Any idea how many people from "Ford Nation" showed up at the game last night to support their hero. Given that I can't find anything about this in the media (except that his team lost), I suspect the turnout was pathetically low.

No one was visibly supporting or not supporting Ford, based on what I saw on TV.

To be honest, I think we should avoid the topic of the Eagles performance last night as it comes off as a bit of a cheap shot. These poor kids have had their whole season overshadowed by this oaf and they played fairly well last night, all things considered. They didn't pick their coach and shouldn't face blowback from his idiotic behaviour. That they performed as well as they did with all the pressure of being 'Ford's Boys' is a credit to them.

 

[cassius]

3. Agree, both where bad candidates, but let's be real. If Miller ran instead of Pantalone, he would still have lossed.

This response is pretty late, but I do recall all the polls being done during the lead-up to Ford's victory. Re-election ratings for Miller were as high as mid 70's by percent. In no polls, regardless of political leaning, did Miller "lose" the "vote" had he actually been running against the candidates at the time.