Rob Ford's Toronto

[nfitz]

Show me the video or I still support the mayor, for the time being.

Why haven't we banned this troll yet? He/she claimed to not be a Ford supporter, and refused to actually discuss anything, and is fishing (angling, trolling) for a reaction.

Only a die hard Ford supporter would still be claiming support.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

CN Tower:

I don't know about what you just did - but I can tell you what I just did is to make the debate less about you as a person but refocus it on the topic at hand. I think we can leave it at that.

As to Gawker- where there's smoke there's fire. Mayor Ford clearly put himself in a compromising position that created a host of problems for him. The issue is whether he was smoking crack cocaine, heroin, or any other illicit narcotics while in office.

Is that even the key issue now? It was 2 weeks ago - but since that time, questions have been raised about the degree of knowledge Rob Ford et al has of the video, their involvement with the key individuals in the case, the role of city paid staff in managing this affair, the veracity of the claims of innocence and the police involvement in the mayor's office to events peripheral to the case. Smoking crack is troubling, but not nearly as troubling as the other questions.

AoD

 

[MetroMan]

CN Tower is the the perfect example of why this video needs to come out. Some people are too blind or really too dumb to put together all the circumstantial evidence and come to a conclusion without being shown the truth in a video directly.

This article also makes a good argument: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/27/ford_nation_stands_by_their_man_porter.html

Is there one thing that would change his mind?
Well, if the video turns up, he concedes. That will be like a grenade thrown from inside the bunker. It will be the end of Ford Nation.
“He’s the mayor,†he said. “How is he going to do crack cocaine and look after business?â€

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

And yet I like a vast number of Torontonians support him now more than ever. Its clear that trying to clean up 50 years of leftist, elitist, corruption in this city has scared many into trying to crucify this guy, but its not working and that must be so frustrating for the anti-Ford types on this board. Most voters care about the business of the city and the results this man has brought has far exceeded anyone before him.

Your so drinking the Kool-Aid! What most voters really care about in Toronto is a Mayor and a Council that can work together with some degree of harmony to move the city forward, carefully attend to the business of the city; planning, managing the finances/services/infrastructure in a responsible & prudent manner and work to promote the city in a positive light. If there's anything good to come of this Bob & Doug nightmare it's that these events of the past 19 months have engaged many Torontonians to get out and vote in greater numbers than ever come next election.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

MetroMan:

You forgot about the "it's a fake" defense.

AoD

 

[MetroMan]

MetroMan:

You forgot about the "it's a fake" defense.

AoD

I've given up on that segment. They're part of the conspiracy theorists and trust me, you will never convince one of anything they don't want to believe. Once you prove them wrong, they come up with ever escalating wild theories.

 

[MetroMan]

John Cook is apparently willing to wait a month for the video. I am under the impression that the price has gone up, i.e. dealer holding out for more, but that's just what I think.

If Robyn Doolittle says there are copies around (and she says that) then I will take it on faith that one will surface and we get the chance to see it.

Oh ok thanks, I missed the show. Still strange that it's not on their site or on IndieGoGo. People who've contributed I'm sure want to know what's going on.

The video will come out. It's a matter of time before one of the copies is sold. Who wouldn't want $200K? $100K? Even $10K? It's a game of chicken. Will guy B sell it or should I hold out for more money.. or is guy C in New York with the video already? With 3 copies out there, it's as good as sold. Give it a few days.

 

[syn]

And yet I like a vast number of Torontonians support him now more than ever. Its clear that trying to clean up 50 years of leftist, elitist, corruption in this city has scared many into trying to crucify this guy, but its not working and that must be so frustrating for the anti-Ford types on this board. Most voters care about the business of the city and the results this man has brought has far exceeded anyone before him.

A lot more people liked Miller.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Deputy Mayor Doug Holyday just stated that he has talked to the Toronto Star's Robyn Doolittle and believes that there is a "video" of the Mayor, but he states that we need it released to fully determine it's contents - until then he continues to support the Mayor.

 

[Tulse]

With 3 copies out there, it's as good as sold.

I would think so -- with Gawker's campaign so public, I would think all copy holders would be contacting them. $200,000 is nothing to sneeze at for one video file.

 

[CN Tower]

MetroMan:

You forgot about the "it's a fake" defense.

AoD

AoD:

I actually think the video probably will show that the mayor was doing crack. I'm just unsure when the video was made, whether it was edited in any way, etc. because we don't know. In my opinion it's fair to wait until more evidence and facts emerge before labeling someone with such serious charges. I don't trust anything the Star has to say at this point either. I trust the G&M for the most part as well as the CBC.

As far as his conduct post Gawker story, well again, it's bafoonery and bad form but I don't believe it gives rise to him having to step down from office, yet. I apologize for constantly making this about my opinions but it seems am I being consistently backed into a corner over my political views which I think you'll agree is not in the spirit of this open and tolerant forum.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I've given up on that segment. They're part of the conspiracy theorists and trust me, you will never convince one of anything they don't want to believe. Once you prove them wrong, they come up with ever escalating wild theories.

The "moving-goalposts segment" is also problematic. How can you have a reasonable discussion with someone who constantly changes his principles? Three days ago, Ford hasn't done crack. Two days ago, Ford isn't a crack addict. One day ago, it doesn't matter what Ford has done as long as he stops the Gravy Train. Today, it's "Whoops, maybe Ford actually is a junkie who hires people to kill those with evidence of his wrongdoing. How was I to know Ford was a bad person.? It's the Star's fault."

 

[RC8]

Intolerance and irrationality understandably and rightly draw criticism in return.

 

[guitarchitect]

AoD:

I actually think the video probably will show that the mayor was doing crack. I'm just unsure when the video was made, whether it was edited in any way, etc. because we don't know. In my opinion it's fair to wait until more evidence and facts emerge before labeling someone with such serious charges. I don't trust anything the Star has to say at this point either. I trust the G&M for the most part as well as the CBC.

As far as his conduct post Gawker story, well again, it's bafoonery and bad form but I don't believe it gives rise to him having to step down from office, yet. I apologize for constantly making this about my opinions but it seems am I being consistently backed into a corner over my political views which I think you'll agree is not in the spirit of this open and tolerant forum.

I think you get backed into a corner because of the way you insult and/or provoke people, but that's just my opinion. Everyone has a different view, but it's how one communicates it and engages in debate that really matters.

 

[TonyV]

The "moving-goalposts segment" is also problematic. How can you have a reasonable discussion with someone who constantly changes his principles? Three days ago, Ford hasn't done crack. Two days ago, Ford isn't a crack addict. One day ago, it doesn't matter what Ford has done as long as he stops the Gravy Train. Today, it's "Whoops, maybe Ford actually is a junkie who hires people to kill those with evidence of his wrongdoing. How was I to know Ford was a bad person.? It's the Star's fault."

You know, I've got a cousin in Willowdale who uses the same type of approach in his defense of the Frods. The guy's a right winger too. They do this kind of thing well and with frequency.