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Rob Ford's Toronto

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I made a small revision to be more correct.

That is so 'Ford Nation' of you, to forget half of everything Mayor Ford says. His mandate was to build a subway with private sector funding so that he would not raise taxes to pay for it. Council gave him his chance to prove funding; he failed miserably; they went back to a sensible plan that is funded.

Ford was elected on two big lies. He has now blamed his opponents for his failures to square the circle on either. He may very well get elected again, who knows? But if he does, it'll be because folks in Ford Nation cannot believe that Ford's rhetoric is completely fabricated from thin air.
 
Except that under our municipal political system, it wasn't his "mandate" per se, given we don't have a strong mayor system. The project wasn't his to cancel - it was the council's. He has the mandate to raise this issue with council, which he failed to do until the very last minute, and failed in his attempt to get approval.

The appalling lack of understanding in how our democratic system works is particularly unforgivable given this constant framing of their failures as undemocratic.

AoD
 
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Especially out in the suburbs where the quality of life of the poor is absolutely appalling.
Appalling yes and dangerous as well. The roads are clogged with beggars thrusting their filthy hands in your face as you ride to church. Scares the horses and the smell is quite disturbing to the womenfolk
 
Appalling yes and dangerous as well. The roads are clogged with beggars thrusting their filthy hands in your face as you ride to church. Scares the horses and the smell is quite disturbing to the womenfolk

hahahaha... very nice.

Although, I'd say Don Mills just barely qualifies as a suburb at all in today's Toronto, if you're still living there.

And, if there is any place that will benefit from amazing new public transit, it'll be Don Mills, with both Eglinton-Crosstown and Don Mills DRL having priority status! You must be extremely grateful to Mayor Miller and his transit vision!
 
We won't have a functioning democracy in Toronto while we remain amalgamated. We haven't since amalgamation, and we won't in the future.

Let me put it this way, if we amalgamated Mississauga into the mix, Mississaugans would vote en masse for whoever promises a subway to Square One. They don't because they know they can't realistically afford it, but if they were a part of Toronto they'd lose sight of that fact and count on us to subsidise it.

Why is democracy non-functioning when it doesn't go your way?

Really?
That's no different than the whole Jarvis Bike lane fiascal. If we removed parts of leaside, the Jarvis Bike Lane would still exist today (and Leaside is very much part of Toronto.)
 
Why is democracy non-functioning when it doesn't go your way?

Really?
That's no different than the whole Jarvis Bike lane fiascal. If we removed parts of leaside, the Jarvis Bike Lane would still exist today (and Leaside is very much part of Toronto.)

It has nothing to do with 'my way' and I stated as such. We are all experts about problems affecting our local community, and usually know very little about other people's problems. It only makes sense to have a democratic system where people's input is most valuable.

Getting into an argument with someone in Scarborough about whether to put bike lanes downtown or not is a useless waste of time. Getting into an argument with a downtowner about what route a new scarborough transit line should take is an equally wasteful exercise. Communities should be empowered to make the best decisions for themselves with the funding they have available and with the advice of independent experts in any given field.

Appalling yes and dangerous as well. The roads are clogged with beggars thrusting their filthy hands in your face as you ride to church. Scares the horses and the smell is quite disturbing to the womenfolk

I bet you would looove to live in a monolithic apartment building in Northern Etobicoke. Without a car.
 
Communities should be empowered to make the best decisions for themselves with the funding they have available and with the advice of independent experts in any given field.

That's where your model fails. Toronto neighbourhoods are not bubbles, their services not singlehanddily funded by themselves (Isn't scarborough the 6th or 7/th largest 'region' in Canada ?)

A DRL doesn't exist if it was only funded by Local residents. Access to the city doesn't happen unless one travels through the burbs (Yes we have a port, but transport of goods is still done through a web of transport trucks and routes.) If every neighbourhood was to make decisions solely based for 'themselves', Toronto would not be what it is now.


It's the discussions and the appeasement of other voices (as they also contribute to the 'pot' also) that does makes democracy 'work'.
And in the case of the city, it's being able to appease, but also be able to see the marco level interactions that will make this city bette.r
 
That's where your model fails. Toronto neighbourhoods are not bubbles, their services not singlehanddily funded by themselves (Isn't scarborough the 6th or 7/th largest 'region' in Canada ?)

A DRL doesn't exist if it was only funded by Local residents. Access to the city doesn't happen unless one travels through the burbs (Yes we have a port, but transport of goods is still done through a web of transport trucks and routes.) If every neighbourhood was to make decisions solely based for 'themselves', Toronto would not be what it is now.


It's the discussions and the appeasement of other voices (as they also contribute to the 'pot' also) that does makes democracy 'work'.
And in the case of the city, it's being able to appease, but also be able to see the marco level interactions that will make this city bette.r

Right. That's why cities like London, Paris, Santiago, Seoul, etc. are a complete disaster compared to Toronto.

I have news for you: Toronto AND Toronto's suburbs can't be accessed without passing through other suburban municipalities now. Does this mean we should be annexing Markham, Mississauga, Richmond Hill, Vaughan, etc? It's in the interest of all municipalities to maintain some degree of connectivity, and to collaborate with their neighbours.

One more thing, a DRL would be much more easily funded if Toronto was not amalgamated to a a bunch of subsidy-thirsty subdivisions.
 
Separation/deamalgamation won't do anything to get needed transit built - those decisions happen beyond the scale of the municipal government and as such we don't really have a regional body wielding the kinds of power needed. Any alternatives one comes up with will probably have regional governance with regional level representation, which basically a repeat of the current situation.

Your best bet is to let this issue simmer till it becomes utterly untenable - like now. Can you imagine having a real (as opposed to theoretical) conversation over a transit tax even 5 years ago?

AoD
 
Separation/deamalgamation won't do anything to get needed transit built - those decisions happen beyond the scale of the municipal government and as such we don't really have a regional body wielding the kinds of power needed. Any alternatives one comes up with will probably have regional governance with regional level representation, which basically a repeat of the current situation.

The difference is that separate regions usually have a better understanding of what they can and can't afford, and realise that they are asking for subsidies when they want the greater region to help them out. It reduces the unnecessary in-fighting and sense of entitlement.

My issues go beyond transit, though. Libraries, sidewalks, bike lanes, parks, etc. are much better handled by local communities than regional bodies. Transit needs to be necessarily a mix of local and regional bodies, together with schools, healthcare, waste diversion, police, and firefighters.

Right now the city of Toronto is stalling because mayor Ford, suburban councillors, and urban councillors can't see eye-to-eye. This level of paralysis is obvious now, but it was also an issue during Miller and Lastman.

The casino is yet another example where politicians actively try and externalise impacts onto other wards while reaping the benefits themselves. Meanwhile business areas within Toronto but outside of downtown are held hostage with high commercial tax rates.

The geographical area encompassed by the current city of Toronto makes no sense geographically. It's either too small to account for the GTA, or too large to serve its individual communities. I doubt that even the best most qualified mayor would be able to fulfil the potential of the area under the current configuration.
 
The geographical area encompassed by the current city of Toronto makes no sense geographically. It's either too small to account for the GTA, or too large to serve its individual communities. I doubt that even the best most qualified mayor would be able to fulfil the potential of the area under the current configuration.

Bull. All political configurations are, by definition, artificial. Metro Toronto becoming the City of Toronto had many disadvantages, but it has many advantages. A competent mayor can make this version of Toronto work just fine. We don't have a competent mayor.

A lot of folks living in Pigalle don't think Paris is run very well. It's not that Paris is run poorly, it's just that Pigalle sucks. If we stop electing narrow-minded folks from North Etobicoke, the city will run better overnight.
 
That is so 'Ford Nation' of you, to forget half of everything Mayor Ford says. His mandate was to build a subway with private sector funding so that he would not raise taxes to pay for it. Council gave him his chance to prove funding; he failed miserably; they went back to a sensible plan that is funded.

Ford was elected on two big lies. He has now blamed his opponents for his failures to square the circle on either. He may very well get elected again, who knows? But if he does, it'll be because folks in Ford Nation cannot believe that Ford's rhetoric is completely fabricated from thin air.


Except that under our municipal political system, it wasn't his "mandate" per se, given we don't have a strong mayor system. The project wasn't his to cancel - it was the council's. He has the mandate to raise this issue with council, which he failed to do until the very last minute, and failed in his attempt to get approval.

The appalling lack of understanding in how our democratic system works is particularly unforgivable given this constant framing of their failures as undemocratic.

AoD

That is so "anti Ford" of you. I think we know that the political power is with Council. But in terms of "moral" mandate, it is a different story. Not only did the 47% support Ford, but 36% supported Smitherman - and both campaigned for a subway to Scarborough (albeit sdifferent ones). This means that over 80% of the electorate on the city wide issue of transit did not support the current Transit City Plan. By not finding a way to compromise in any way with the majority of voters, it has simply galvanized the public to NOT want to provide any additional funding for transit and it risks the projects being cancelled again at the next oportunity.
 
BurlOak:

You are reaching - first of all, there is no such thing as a "moral mandate", especially since it is highly questionable as to whether 80% of those who voted for either candidate did so on the basis of their stance on subways. Second, as you would recall Stintz et al was in his camp to start - and the mayor rebuffed all attempts at compromise. Third, as i recall there was simple no need for a single cent public money necessary - perhaps this boast is what poisoned the well in the funding debate in the first place?

I think we know that the political power is with Council.

Really? I'd be curious to know what percentage of citizens realize that fact? His worship certainly didn't acknowledge that reality. Besides, are you saying that council is any less democratic, have any less of a "moral mandate" than the mayor?

AoD
 
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