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Rob Ford's Toronto

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typezed said:
If Tory qualified his statements after leading with "No", I dare say it a bit - I don't know - disingenuous to post a clip on YouTube that at 11 seconds cuts him off mid-sentence. Anyway, maybe I'm too old and white, but I'm weary of the word privilege. Beginning to wonder if there aren't whole courses of study down at the university (one of the world's more privileged places to spend your days) where if you fill in all the blank spaces with Privilege privilege privilege PRIVILEGE privilege you ace the exam. The buzzword in my youth for these sorts of things was Power.
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The way the question is framed is way too 'inside baseball' to have any real staying power. Headlines do not scream things like "John Tory Denies That White Privilege Exists!!"

"John Tory Denies That Racism Exists!!" That's a headline.

As it is, it's WAY too University-Speak for anyone to care much...
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I suspect those inclined to criticize him on this issue aren't the ones who'd vote for him anyways. Like the women and golf comment - rather regrettable and detached, but it isn't unexpected - hugely different from the greater sin of "special treatment" that is the religious school stance.


JT basically said that the best way for women to climb up the corporate ladder is to play golf.

AoD
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I am a woman and I found nothing offensive about the golf thing. Truth of the matter is that business relationships, transactions and networking can often best occur outside the office. Many successful business people golf, sales especially. It's why golf tournaments are organized by companies and professional associations. Classic case of mountain made out of a molehill.
 
Kat's Meow said:
I am a woman and I found nothing offensive about the golf thing. Truth of the matter is that business relationships, transactions and networking can often best occur outside the office. Many successful business people golf, sales especially. It's why golf tournaments are organized by companies and professional associations. Classic case of mountain made out of a molehill.
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All true. And aside from me who does not golf all the women in my family do. Its not so sexist to me but it is elitist. Its expensive, it requires a car, no one wants to play a total rookie so there's lessons.... A single mom taking up golf? Not so much.
 
nohostages said:
All true. And aside from me who does not golf all the women in my family do. Its not so sexist to me but it is elitist. Its expensive, it requires a car, no one wants to play a total rookie so there's lessons.... A single mom taking up golf? Not so much.
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Can't argue with that - it is expensive but equally expensive for women and for men. Definitely not a game for the entry level employee. But as you attain more senior roles, it is a way to connect on a different level. Much more acceptable these days than going out for drinks. I played when I had to and I wasn't great but not that terrible either, but yeah those that were serious golfers really weren't that patient. Fortunately, I found most I played with, as unaccomplished as I am, were pleasant about my mediocre game recognizing it was really about networking more than a PGA level game.
 
Scarberian said:
I must be the squarest Scarborough resident or something. I never sold any weed or hash during high school. Maybe I wasn't quite the young entrepreneur at that age as young Dougie was. :D
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I bootlegged SweetTarts.
 
Kilroy said:
I like the part about how they charged the city $2419.50 for "extra tags that came off the print run".

The order total was for $24195, so $2419.50 means the extra tags represented 10% of the run.

The run was for 500,000

So... 50,000 extra tags came off the print run!

Maybe they just figured they'd send an extra 10% because the City never said they didn't want it..

Gasp... Did Deco practise negative option billing?
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If they did then they broke Federal and Ontario law. I'm not sure but I think it is a loophole in the contractual agreement, CH didn't include verbiage to prohibit deviations to the order.
 
Scarberian said:
My main point is I don't quite buy Doug's defense of "I only sold the occasional joint to my friends for 10$, if you want to call that dealing...". Someone selling small amounts of weed to make ends meet is one thing. While Doug may not be TO's Tony Montagna of hash, he doesn't strike me as strictly small time either.
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A $10 joint in the early '80's would be about a 500% markup back then, and hardly no one sold joints in the 80's, perhaps beyond a few scallywags at places like the Roxy theatre before a Rocky Horror Picture Show screening. Hash & pot was generally sold by the half ounce or ounce, and pot was inexpensive, good black hash was more expensive. No wonder Doug still can't run a business.

As the big old boys get older and die off golf is becoming less of a thing among younger execs. and up-and-comers. Sure, people play it but with lower salaries and it getting so expensive, the trend is more to work increased hours and spend time networking in cheaper ways while trying to climb the corporate ladder than be at a golf course & clubhouse for half a day.
 
IHTWORF still have not formulated a spin on Doolittle's piece and I waiting to see it, they do have a note for the Zoomer event, they don't mention that Dougie got his ass handed to him.
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
I suspect those inclined to criticize him on this issue aren't the ones who'd vote for him anyways. Like the women and golf comment - rather regrettable and detached, but it isn't unexpected - hugely different from the greater sin of "special treatment" that is the religious school stance.

MTown:

JT basically said that the best way for women to climb up the corporate ladder is to play golf.

AoD
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yes, here and with the white privilege comment, Tory comes off as detached, out of touch. Not really actively racist or sexist, just kind of bumbling. his camp will probably spin it off as "Oh, good heavens -- there is still systemic discrimination in this day and age?? How dreadful! John Tory never practiced discrimination in the businesses he ran, and is shocked (SHOCKED!) to find out some people still experience it. Well..., we shall have to do something about that right away, of course."

I actually didn't see the fuss about the golf comment. I mean (a) it's equally good (or bad) advice for a man or woman; and (b) there's no good answer to that question.

Q: what's the best way for women to climb up the corporate ladder
A: have sex with your boss (sexist); -- work harder (what? are you saying women don't work hard? or that they should have to work harder than a man for the same pay? sexist); -- be more forceful in asking for raises and promotions (what? we are asking for them, and you sexist pigs aren't giving them to us?); -- run amok in the office with a shot gun and get rid of your rivals (errrm... what?)

It really is similar to "does this make me look fat?" you can't win.

ETA: I don't really think Doug can attack him on this; the Fords are not simply "unaware" -- they cynically use minorities for their own gain, try to keep them needy and indebted, and at the same time stoke fear and perpetuate stereotypes.

Though since Doug regularly tries to redefine what racism is, I'm sure he'll try to use it. Just wonder how dumb he'll make himself look this time.
 
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kaboi said:
My mother was one of those women who learned to play golf. It didn't get her ahead in her work, it just got her on the golf course. Her entire career she has watched younger and less capable white men sail past her in salary and opportunity. Want to guess how many times she's been called aggressive or strident? She's achieved some success, but make no mistake, she's been bashing her head against the glass ceiling her entire life and has had to struggle for every achievement.

Since you seem unwilling to dig into the reasons why people were upset about the golf comments and about his most recent comments, let me spell it out for you: it's systemic, stupid.

John Tory's denial of white privilege, along with saying women never came to negotiate higher salaries and that women should learn to play golf if they want to advance their careers misses the point that people of colour and women are held back by much greater forces that they have little or no control over. Tory's insensitivity to those realities is what makes everyone so upset.
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This.
 
Kilroy said:
I like the part about how they charged the city $2419.50 for "extra tags that came off the print run".

The order total was for $24195, so $2419.50 means the extra tags represented 10% of the run.

The run was for 500,000

So... 50,000 extra tags came off the print run!

Maybe they just figured they'd send an extra 10% because the City never said they didn't want it..

Gasp... Did Deco practise negative option billing?
Click to expand...

+/- 10% was a standard term in printing contracts (buried deep in the fine print on the back of the quote) for a long time to cover the ass of printers who had to run some extras to insure against problems in binding, cutting, damage, etc. You could specify "no overs or unders" but would then probably pay more.

I haven't had a printer use the 10% clause with me in probably 10 years as more and more printing has gone digital and the equipment is much better. In the past, the ones that consistently padded the bill with the full 10% overs were the ones I stopped using very quickly.
 
drk said:
+/- 10% was a standard term in printing contracts (buried deep in the fine print on the back of the quote) for a long time to cover the ass of printers who had to run some extras to insure against problems in binding, cutting, damage, etc. You could specify "no overs or unders" but would then probably pay more.

I haven't had a printer use the 10% clause with me in probably 10 years as more and more printing has gone digital and the equipment is much better. In the past, the ones that consistently padded the bill with the full 10% overs were the ones I stopped using very quickly.
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Did you try to find a more "vibrant" supplier?
 
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