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Rob Ford's Toronto

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I don't care about the mill rate %. I have a 4 bedroom home in Cabbagetown and pay way more property tax than my brother in Mississauga who has a similarly sized home. Sure, if I sold it I'd have more money than my brother, but I'm not moving, I don't care about resale. All I care about is keeping my total property tax as low as possible.


love having your cake and eating it too i see.

i can guarantee you that you are paying less in property taxes for your 4 bedroom home in Cabbagetown than a newer condo in dt toronto of similar value, or even a similar sized house in Etob, North York, Scarb, etc.

odds are you are paying less than 2/3 of your CVA
 
Not a Ford fan for other reasons, but all this talk of civic uprising, mass protests at City Hall and possible violent threats against the mayor are being exaggerated. But in case I'm wrong..

Well, for all one knows, the culprit might be quite mild and accidental
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Ford represents the first time we've ever had a city smasher for a mayor. Even Eggleton and Lastman, despite their conservative leanings, appreciated the city and wanted it to prosper. Ford just wants to implode the whole thing so that he can get to work faster and save a few bucks.

The question is, are there enough people in this city who value its improved standing and overall condition, to defend it from the forces now lining up against it? I envision a strong and passionate resistance growing in the coming months, but is that enough to overcome the vast swaths of largely unengaged, low information types who like the "cut gravy" sound-bytes and have little awareness of the urban amenities and services that are threatened?

Perhaps if crimes spike noticeably and houses burn down out of control in the coming months and years, the masses will take notice. But will they draw the right conclusions and make the connection between political choices and outcome? Right wing media (and there's lots of it Toronto) is very adept at conditioning LIV's against any kind of common sense awareness or evidence based enlightenment. Personally, I fear for this city as I never have before.
 
I don't care about the mill rate %. I have a 4 bedroom home in Cabbagetown and pay way more property tax than my brother in Mississauga who has a similarly sized home. Sure, if I sold it I'd have more money than my brother, but I'm not moving, I don't care about resale. All I care about is keeping my total property tax as low as possible.

"The very economic well-being of our city can be risked as long as my taxes stay low!"
 
Toronto is vastly undertaxed considering the services and infrastructure we provide / enjoy.

TO's mill rate vs. other municipalities in the GTA for 2010

http://www.propertytoronto.com/TaxRates2010.pdf

TO is 20% to 50% LESS than other cities

Mill rate is not the best comparison, because property values do not necessarily correspond to the cost of providing services. The fellow who compared the taxes paid on his 4-bedroom house in Cabbagetown to a similarly-sized house in a smaller town has a partial point. The Cabbagetown house may cost twice as much, but the cost of paving the streets of Cabbagetown do not. I would not consider it a good deal to pay 50% more on my phone bill simply because my house costs 100% more, and the same reasoning should apply to municipal services, if we are comparing value between municipalities.

In addition, most Torontonians are renters, and pay a far higher proportion of their incomes in housing costs. These people do not benefit from high property values. And when property taxes are raised, these increases can legally be applied to the rent. Property taxes are not levied based on ability to pay, and are a major burden for the elderly, large families and renters. This is one reason why it would be insane to scrap the Land Transfer Tax, which does not affect renters and is mainly a burden for house flippers and real estate agents who profit from frequent house sales. (Ford opponents might wish to tell tenants who voted for Ford that scrapping the LTT is necessarily an implied property tax increase, ie: the overall tax burden is shifted back to property owners, as opposed to property sellers, an increased burden that renters will have to pay).

However, there have been comparisons of typical Toronto property taxes and typical taxes elsewhere, as paid by families in similar circumstances. These studies have also found that Torontonians get a pretty good deal, independent of the local property values. This is skewed somewhat by the unfair application of the education portion of the tax bill, and this good deal does not apply to businesses, who pay much more in property taxes than businesses elsewhere.

So there is room for residential tax increases, but the City needs to diversify its revenue base, and deal with the structural deficit (ie: which is mostly the TTC subsidy paid to keep suburban transit routes going).
 
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I don't think Ford's actions are his alone. As CN pointed out early in this thread, KPMG was hired by Mike Harris and recommended amalgamation. Connect the dots and I can't help but think that everything Ford does is under the command of Harris. Harris, through the Ford brothers is finishing off what he started with amalgamation. The slow decay of Toronto's socal fabric. Councillors supporting Ford are doing so for future political aspirations. Possibly provincial PC or federal CPC nominations. The thing about politicians, is that once elected, most spend their time in office planning their re-election or their political career advancement. Thankfully some of them are actually doing the job they were elected to do. How's that for a conspiracy theory?
 
Here are two recent items from the Post and the Globe, respectively:

Voters tired of waste message: Duncan

Province blames Ford, cities for gridlock problem

A few months ago, Dalton McGuinty sycophantically allowed Rob Ford to take $2 billion of provincial transit money and bury it in a tunnel. Now his government is gearing up for an election by preemptively blaming Ford for the upcoming train wreck, and linking Ford to Hudak.

I wonder if Liberal pollsters know something the rest of us do not yet know. Do their internal polls show Ford has gone toxic?
 
I don't care about the mill rate %. I have a 4 bedroom home in Cabbagetown and pay way more property tax than my brother in Mississauga who has a similarly sized home. Sure, if I sold it I'd have more money than my brother, but I'm not moving, I don't care about resale. All I care about is keeping my total property tax as low as possible.

Without getting a PhD in municipal taxation, would it be possible to use the City of Toronto Act or lobby the province to allow different districts of the city to have different tax rates? Why should the tax rate for properties in Rosedale be set the same as the properties in Rexdale?
 
Here are two recent items from the Post and the Globe, respectively:

Voters tired of waste message: Duncan

Province blames Ford, cities for gridlock problem

A few months ago, Dalton McGuinty sycophantically allowed Rob Ford to take $2 billion of provincial transit money and bury it in a tunnel. Now his government is gearing up for an election by preemptively blaming Ford for the upcoming train wreck, and linking Ford to Hudak.

I wonder if Liberal pollsters know something the rest of us do not yet know. Do their internal polls show Ford has gone toxic?

I was thinking about this the other day. I wonder if secretly part of the deal was an endorsement from Ford for McGuinty, or at least no vocal support for any provincial party. When it came to Transit City, the province held all the cards, and simply could have told Ford to go away - ESPECIALLY since there has never been a formal vote among city politicians to kill the TC project.
 
When you talk about how much lower are residential rates are do you forget how much higher our commercial rates are ?

In terms of tax revenue alone I really doubt Toronto it getting a lot less per office worker / resident / renter then our 905 counterparts, I bet it's very similar or if anything we take in more per capita.

Having said that things change with a city of this size ... the sheer amount needed for all sorts of subsidy programs to help those are lower income level is very high ... things like this used to be funded at the provincial level. Along with this is the size of the Police force and the like ...

To be fair I don't think you can compare Toronto to the 905 ... and if you do, and ignore all the things above, you're going to probably reach the conclusion that residents are maybe slightly under-taxed (but really just slighly compared to the 905) but commercial is way overtaxed.


Here's another point ... some people make comments about you have a house in location X and it's worth so much more but is the same size as our 905 counterparts ...
The average house price in the ENTIRE city of Toronto is VERY similar to our 905 neighbourhoods ... for all the expesnive areas people tend to forget about areas that go for less then the average house in the 905 ... there are quite a few of them as well.

Don't forgot the tax you pay is for the whole city ..
 
In All Fired Up in the Big Smoke, Cityslikr suggests that the blindside killings of the Fort York Bridge and the Jarvis streetscape improvements might have been warnings to mushy middle councillors:

Grade school, bully boy tactics that has the dual purpose of sticking it to a political foe while warning everyone else who may be getting restless under the mayor’s thumb to stay put and shut up.

Fort York bridge, killed. Jarvis Street bike lanes, removed.

You see what Mayor Ford just did there, Councillor Bailão? Councillor Colle? Councillor Matlow? Councillor McMahon?

A bit too conspiratorial, perhaps? Cityslikr acknowledges its sounds paranoid. But consider:

It’s instructive to point out that in the lead up to the Jarvis bike lane debate, Mayor Ford went out of his way to hold the Lawrence Heights development item, a big ticket project that Councillor Colle inherited from his predecessor in Ward 15, Howard Moscoe. Yes, the mayor had never been a fan of the development. He’d even campaigned in the neighbourhood last year and vowed to stop it if elected. But note the timeline this week. Mayor Ford holds item, putting a gun to its head. Jarvis Street bike lane debate happens. Councillor Colle remains in deep background during it. When the vote happens, Councillor Colle lines up with the mayor to help tear up the bike lanes.

Recess for lunch. When the meeting resumes, the mayor releases the item and is the only one to vote against it. However, it’s now safe for Councillor Colle to go forward.

That’s some out-and-out gangster shit there. The exact opposite of building consensus. Let’s call it, political extortion, given added oomph that it comes with the very real example of what happens if you don’t play ball with the mayor. Projects just disappear.

I'm inclined to agree with Napolean (I think it was) who said "Don't attribute to conspiracy that which can be easily explained by incompetence." But Ford's holding and then releasing the Lawrence Heights development does seem pretty weird.
 
So Ford is fine with the redevelopment now ? I think I recall that was going ahead.
 
Without getting a PhD in municipal taxation, would it be possible to use the City of Toronto Act or lobby the province to allow different districts of the city to have different tax rates? Why should the tax rate for properties in Rosedale be set the same as the properties in Rexdale?
To clarify my earlier point - I don't begrudge paying my fair share of taxes however they are calculated, for I value our public parks, services, infrastructure, etc. Nor do I wholly agree that a city should be run like a business, since services provided for free, like libraries or my local Riverdale Farm would never work in a business model. That all said, I sincerely don't believe that you can fix the city's woes by increasing taxes. I guarantee you that if the city gains more revenue through increased taxation that they will increase expenditures to match or exceed the new revenue. This happens with all governments of all right, centre of left idealogy.

Thus I agree that a department by department review for savings should be made. I fully agree that the police budget needs to be curtailed, and if for example that means fewer cops in a declining crime environment, then that's okay.

If there are no savings, then raise taxes only if needed.
 
Even if taxes aren't increased, they should be, at the very minimum, kept in line with inflation.

If Ford hadn't enacted such a Lastman-esque tax freeze last year, the city wouldn't be in nearly a bad situation as it is now.
 
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