Rob Ford's Toronto

[pattycakes]

There are often references to people who know first-hand about the Ford's nefarious activities but refuse to go public because of "intimidation". Does anyone have details on what intimidation Ford-style looks like?

From the Globe and Mail Story :
The other Ford brother, Randy, beat and kidnapped a drug dealer who couldn't pay up while at the strip mall that acted as a meeting spot for the drug dealing crew. Randy was arrested after trying to ransom the dealer's family:

On a Tuesday night, with the usual throng of young adults outside the Bank of Montreal at the Royal York Plaza, Marco was jumped, beaten and thrown into a car. He was driven more than 30 kilometres to a basement in Bolton, where someone called his parents, demanding they hand over the money. For 10 hours, Mr. Orlando was captive, but his parents didn’t panic. Instead, they called the police. Within three days, all three men allegedly involved in the plot were under arrest. (“The powers-that-be blow things all out of proportion, and I guess technically it is kidnapping, but in our world, he owed us $5,000,” said Tom.)

One of those arrested was Randy Ford, who was 24 at the time.

 

[guitarchitect]

First off: no, it isn't. The article is about how manipulation was used to circumvent the background checks. The school board is allowed to make an informed decision about who they hire, and are responsible for any backlash they face for said decisions (say, if they hired someone with a criminal record). The issue here is that they weren't given the opportunity to make that decision. Personally, I don't see what the problem is with this fellow coaching kids, considering we have high school kids getting their volunteer hours alongside criminals doing their community service.

I'm not talking about the article. I'm talking about the moral obligation that Rob Ford has as the coach of a high school football game. You can't bring forth that kind of character and shrug and say "Welp, if the school board passed him, OK then!" - well, maybe you can, but I can't... and as such I think the coach should be held to the same standard. Every parent with a kid on that team is trusting the coach to exercise good judgement, and I don't think that happened here.

By the way, I still think you should be defending why it was a sound decision. You haven't, and I think it's because you can't actually defend the guy - all you can do is decry the critiques of him, argued on minor technicalities.

How many times in the past have I admitted that something Ford has done is wrong or in poor judgement or a serious controversy? How many times in the past have you admitted that Ford has done something good or in good judgement or that one issue effecting him is overblown? I think that if anyone looked at our past posting histories, they'd see that you are by far the more blindly partisan and ideological of the two of us.

I don't keep track - but I'll be the first to admit if/when he does something that I like. I expressed something tantamount to "gladness" when he put his foot down with Ryerson, and said the Sam's sign has to go back up. Here's the thing - I'm not blindly partisan just because Rob Ford does a lot of stupid things. I am openly critical of every politician - I look at every reasonable candidate in a given election, and I base my vote on their platform and my own vision for what the city should be - not the party they represent, nor the "side" they represent... so I'm not "liberal" or "conservative" or whatever - I'm independent and critical.

The problem is, Ford operates on a few stubborn principles and refuses to think, consider, analyze, or study anything. So, surprise surprise, there's a hell of a lot to criticize. But calling me blindly partisan and ideological is quite inaccurate, and it's just a convenient way for you to lump me in with a group of people and then act like the criticism of them applies to me. I'm calling what I see - if recent memory serves, you seemed to be blatantly defensive of Ford's actions in the face of a gigantic wall of evidence... I never labeled you "part of the right" or part of "Ford Nation", because I'm directly critiquing what you specifically said in your post. If you can't actually defend/support the guy's rationale, and your best line of defense is to attack the critics, then I'm afraid you've got quite a weak case and there's not much preventing others from calling you blind right back.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Unbelievable. More political meddling in transit planning. The province is playing a deeply cynical game, and that's saying something in a game where almost all the players are dirty. The mind boggles at the epic stupidity and short-sightedness of it all. Two more years of studying, of wait-and-see, of idly guessing which direction the prevailing political winds will be blowing in.

Unreal.

Yup. We'll have two years of EAs. By then we'll have a new council, and who knows what they'll demand. Maybe they'll decide the subway is too costely and demand an LRT with an elevated Eglinton Crosstown (which is actually the smartest option)

 

[CowboyLogic]

Cowboy Logic: Some questions for you:

1) Do you think Rob Ford runs a transparent government like he said he would?

In some respects, yes. In others, no. I do feel like Ford is one of the most completely transparent politicians in terms of his motives and opinions. There are definitely some transparency issues - for instance, in regards to David Price or reallocation of city services for football purposes. However, overall, I believe he has run a transparent government. Most importantly, the mayor's office has never been more accessible for everyday citizens than it is under Ford.

2) Do you think he has responsible hiring practices?

Considering his office is grossly understaffed compared to previous mayors, I do believe he has been economically responsible with his hiring practices.

3) Do you think he is a good face for the city, locally and internationally?

I really don't care about whether someone is a "good face" for the city - I care about whether they're good for the city.

I don't think anything Ford does is going to tarnish Toronto's reputation in the slightest. Generally, the only people who are thinking about Toronto's image are Torontonians. Nobody else cares. Look at Mayor Bob Filner, who was a complete disgrace in many more magnitudes than Ford. Has that brought any damage to the reputation of San Diego? Not really.

4) Do you think his choice of friends calls his character into question?

No. I wouldn't want to be judged on the basis of my friends or family. I judge him on how he performs his job. I really don't care who he hangs out with.

5) Do you think he is forthright and honest?

Yes. In fact, I think he's one of the most forthright and honest politicians we've seen in a long time.

He has been completely transparent in terms of his opinions and politics, which really is quite extraordinary for a politician. He is completely honest and forthright about the decisions he makes in office.

He has been dishonest in regards to personal issues, to some degree, but I'm not personally concerned with that.

6) Do you think he owes the public an explanation for any of the countless questions they have?

Depends what the question is.

7) Do you think he speaks primarily in catchphrases or does he have a sophisticated understanding of the problems that face the city?

Its not necessairly one or the other. I do think, like any politician, he uses slogans or catchphrases, but I also think he's a lot more clever politically than people give him credit for.

8) Do you think the arrests, the police investigation, the photograph, the respected journalists citing a video they have seen, the trip to the prison, etc., are all a coincidence?

No, I said from the beginning that I believe Ford did smoke crack. Personally, I just don't care.

9) Do you think Ford has kept all of his promises?

More-so than most politicians. He has kept many of his promises - some he has attempted to keep, but failed either due to council or his own incompetence in delivering them. Some he just hasn't kept, but he's at least been forthright about those (such as eliminating the land transfer tax). There are also some that he just didn't keep, but I think he has a much better ratio than most politicians.

10) Do you think his recent trip was effective?

Not sure. I don't know if I really see the point to that trip to be honest, but there could be some benefits later down the line.

11) Do you think it's okay for a mayor to be involved with hard drugs, as long as he hates streetcars, bicycles, the arts and taxes?

Personally, I don't care what politicians do in their down time. As long as he doesn't have an addiction that seriously effects the performance of his job, I really could care less if he smokes crack on occasion. Many politicians are involved with hard drugs or even suffer from addictions - its just that most of them are more clever than Ford at covering their tracks.

 

[MetroMan]

I've been told by a councillor's staff member that that councillor and at least two others are seeking to have Ford justify to City Council (in camera if not in public) the role of David Price in his office. Price is billing the taxpayer (over $100k) for work that is unknown and this Councillor strongly believes that given Price's past, and given allegations about inappropriate conduct at City Hall, City Council is owed an explanation. A simple majority is all that is required to have Ford list Price's activities, expenses and justify his employment in his office. Unfortunately, since this is a personnel issue, Ford's forced explanation may happen behind closed doors.

 

[CowboyLogic]

I'm not talking about the article. I'm talking about the moral obligation that Rob Ford has as the coach of a high school football game. You can't bring forth that kind of character and shrug and say "Welp, if the school board passed him, OK then!" - well, maybe you can, but I can't... and as such I think the coach should be held to the same standard. Every parent with a kid on that team is trusting the coach to exercise good judgement, and I don't think that happened here.

By the way, I still think you should be defending why it was a sound decision. You haven't, and I think it's because you can't actually defend the guy - all you can do is decry the critiques of him, argued on minor technicalities.

You're right - I can't defend the decision. I don't know the guy, I don't the details of his criminal exploits, I don't know exactly what the job entails, and I don't have the slightest clue whether he would be appropriate for the position. I'm not going to make a judgement without the relevant facts, and hence, won't defend any decision. The school board were - or should have been - the ones with the proper facts and resources to make that decision.

My point - from the offset - was that this is a non-controversy. Ford isn't necessairly complicit in the circumvention of the background check. As for students working with a coach with a criminal background, I fail to see how this is such a problem in a city where we have students getting their volunteer hours alongside convicted criminals doing their community service.

I don't keep track - but I'll be the first to admit if/when he does something that I like. I expressed something tantamount to "gladness" when he put his foot down with Ryerson, and said the Sam's sign has to go back up. Here's the thing - I'm not blindly partisan just because Rob Ford does a lot of stupid things. I am openly critical of every politician - I look at every reasonable candidate in a given election, and I base my vote on their platform and my own vision for what the city should be - not the party they represent, nor the "side" they represent... so I'm not "liberal" or "conservative" or whatever - I'm independent and critical.

Same goes for me, which is why I resent being labelled as somebody who will blindly defend Ford on any issue. I have been critical of Ford on several issues - I also think others are overly-critical or create controversies where there aren't any. This latest issue falls under the latter for me, but I've been in the former plenty of times.

The problem is, Ford operates on a few stubborn principles and refuses to think, consider, analyze, or study anything. So, surprise surprise, there's a hell of a lot to criticize. But calling me blindly partisan and ideological is quite inaccurate, and it's just a convenient way for you to lump me in with a group of people and then act like the criticism of them applies to me. I'm calling what I see - if recent memory serves, you seemed to be blatantly defensive of Ford's actions in the face of a gigantic wall of evidence... I never labeled you "part of the right" or part of "Ford Nation", because I'm directly critiquing what you specifically said in your post. If you can't actually defend/support the guy's rationale, and your best line of defense is to attack the critics, then I'm afraid you've got quite a weak case and there's not much preventing others from calling you blind right back.

How is accusing me of defending "anything and everything the guy does" a direct criticism of what I said in my post? That's a baseless attack, and an untrue one at that.

The truth is...I've responded to every direct criticism in your post. I've refused to defend Ford in this instance simply because there's nothing to defend - Ford hasn't necessairly done anything wrong nor do I (or anyone else here) have the relevant facts to determine whether he made a good decision. As I've said before, I don't see any controversy here...there's nothing for me to defend. I've directly defended Ford on many other issues, and I've criticized him on several too, but there's nothing to defend here.

 

[Electrify]

More about what's near Ginger. I have a few ideas, but if you know the area, you can probably figure it out.

Zanzibar?

 

[DD13]

Cowboy Logic, Thank you for your reply.

1) I didn't mean transparent as in simplistic and easy to read. I meant is he forthcoming with information, or does he operate primarily behind closed doors. "No one's business what happens in my office" says it all to me. And I'm not sure why we need a mayor who fixes potholes, but I also - post scandal - really doubt he still answers his phone calls.

2) I get a sense you hear what you want to hear. Was David Price a good hire? Should old friends (criminal or not) really be hired, simply because they are loyal?

3) So you don't think promotion is part of a mayor's job? Why'd he go to Austin then? Was it really a fact finding mission? Does he have binders of research to share with us? Did he take any music experts with him? What about the people who run NxNE?

4) If people are not judged by the characters they associate with, why does the phrase "Obama palls around with terrorists" receive 350 000 Google hits? (and by the way, the terrorist in question was a distinguished professor, best selling author, respected community worker, etc).

 

[Electrify]

Funny... Just irresponsibly putting this out there (humour me), but, I am 90% certain that I got into an altercation with Rob Ford at a strip club a year or two before the election.

Never shared this publicly before, but, the clients that I was entertaining that night swore/swear that it was him or his exact doppelgänger -- especially as/bc the person was pulling "do you know who I am?" as his line of defence pre-brawl, at first to imply he was a VIP and then more that he was "street" and connected. The Ford lookalike called over one of the bouncers and told them by name that "we're going to knife these fuckers (my clients and I) in the lane-way". That resulted in the house lights coming up, the dancers running away, and us being separated by security before any bloodshed (which would have been inevitable, my sidekick was armed and I was ready for a bottle-smashing good time).

My clients just stood back and let my sidekick and I take care of things. They loved it. Was their best meeting in years. Questions about "was that guy a city councillor??" began the second we started walking away from the strip-club afterwards.

A few months later, when his mug was on the news one night, I recognized him as being the man I nearly clobbered in a peeler. A pot dealer visiting my friend's house, seeing footage of the Ford boys on TV and hearing me remark about the incident, exclaimed "yeah, so, do you know who that is? The 905 just elected my biggest hook-up as the mayor of Toronto. WTF is going on?"

Then, the rumours started coming in about the Fords from stunned friends in Etobicoke who knew the true side to them, stories of fights in strip-clubs and such, and that most of them had bought weed, hash or coke from them back in the day. The whispers and buzz about it obviously hasn't stopped among those circles since they became public figures.

Strip club aside, it's all made me a bit OCD about exposing the outsiders running my home town.

How you doin'?

EDIT: Never mind, thought you were a stripper

 

[evvabeing]

I really don't care about whether someone is a "good face" for the city - I care about whether they're good for the city.

I don't think anything Ford does is going to tarnish Toronto's reputation in the slightest.

 

[eastcoastanddown]

Just an observation. I was sitting in council chambers all day today watching the gong show. Amidst all of the banter from council members on the Ford side of the room, one of them just read that the ex-mayor of Detroit had been sentenced to 28 years in jail. At that point Rob turned away from them and didn't so much as move or shift his gaze for a while. I wonder what was going through his head...

 

[CowboyLogic]

Cowboy Logic, Thank you for your reply.

1) I didn't mean transparent as in simplistic and easy to read. I meant is he forthcoming with information, or does he operate primarily behind closed doors. "No one's business what happens in my office" says it all to me. And I'm not sure why we need a mayor who fixes potholes, but I also - post scandal - really doubt he still answers his phone calls.

I do believe he is forthcoming in some respects and not forthcoming in others. In terms of David Price's hiring, as well as issues of his schedule, he is not transparent at all. Which is a problem.

Unfortunately its really difficult to wade through city bureaucracy and to have the daily difficulties and problems encountered in Toronto dealt with. I'm not sure if Ford should be personally dealing with pot-holes and other inconsequential issues, but I do think its a good thing he does wield his office's power, influence and resources to help out regular citizens with their problems. He (or his office) resolved an issue for me that had been ongoing for months in the span of a couple days. It likely took a couple of phone calls and it probably saved me from having to go to court. I know during the whole crack scandal, he showed up to deal with a complaint of Corey Mintz's. Obviously directly dealing with these issues isn't the best use of his time, but I also think that its important that citizens have a direct line to the mayor and that the mayor (and Councillors for that matter) deal with the small issues along with the big.

2) I get a sense you hear what you want to hear. Was David Price a good hire? Should old friends (criminal or not) really be hired, simply because they are loyal?

I'm not sure if he is a good hire. Probably not, based on his behavior. Its hard to make a judgement when he hasn't been transparent on the issue.

3) So you don't think promotion is part of a mayor's job? Why'd he go to Austin then? Was it really a fact finding mission? Does he have binders of research to share with us? Did he take any music experts with him? What about the people who run NxNE?

I know that he did take several music industry professionals with him. As to what benefits this trip might bring, we'll probably have to wait and see what comes of it. I don't think international promotion should be part of the mayor's job, unless it brings some definable benefits to the city. I don't really see the purpose of the trip personally and don't know why going down to Austin was necessary to get any facts.

4) If people are not judged by the characters they associate with, why does the phrase "Obama palls around with terrorists" receive 350 000 Google hits? (and by the way, the terrorist in question was a distinguished professor, best selling author, respected community worker, etc).

They are judged, but I don't judge them based on that. Personally, I could care less who Obama hangs out with. Same goes for Ford. I judge them on their actions in office and the decisions they make, as well as their competency at their jobs.

 

[TOvp]

Under no circumstances should Payman/select preferred alias have had anything to do with any school.

I'm involved in community activities for kids, and our small volunteer organization screened every application before forwarding for police checks. Now they're done online, but we still ask for ID.

There was a case where a volunteer was denied due to a pot charge 25 years ago. Great person, nothing else in the file but until pardoned, not part of our organization.

As for whether or not Ford knew, when I suggest people for opportunities, there's due diligence on my part regarding their background. It's not a far fetched concept.

 

[RC8]

Rob Ford, competent and transparent?

[video=youtube;_vCpKUNRBEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCpKUNRBEw[/video]

Spreading lies or wilfully ignorant? Your pick.

 

[MetroMan]

Just an observation. I was sitting in council chambers all day today watching the gong show. Amidst all of the banter from council members on the Ford side of the room, one of them just read that the ex-mayor of Detroit had been sentenced to 28 years in jail. At that point Rob turned away from them and didn't so much as move or shift his gaze for a while. I wonder what was going through his head...

Canadian laws aren't as unforgiving as the ones in the US but Ford could be looking at a good 5 years for some of the charges that are being alleged. With what we already know, the police are investigating him because they have reason to believe that he's done something illegal. We already know Ford is stupid enough to leave traces and that while he can fool gullible members of Ford Nation, he won't outsmart the highly experienced detectives on this case. Because of this, I'm highly confident that charges will be laid at some point and that once they are, at the very least Ford is going to be coming out of this with a criminal record and a very public confirmation that he's a liar who has been purposefully deceiving everybody who put their trust in him.