Rob Ford's Toronto

[MetroMan]

How does RoFo sleep at night? I could never live normally with this hanging over me. I'd imagine that every time he turns on the TV or picks up a newspaper his heart skips a few beats as he waits to see if his lies have been revealed. It would have been so much easier for Ford to have fessed up his crack addiction when Gawker first broke the story.

That's what I've been saying. It's not just his job, he could actually go to jail and he will almost certainly end up being called to testify in court and have all his dirty laundry laid out in public. I have to give him credit. If it were me, I'd probably have given up and run away from this mess by now.

 

[christiesplits]

Imagine Ford on the stand, under oath having to admit to buying crack cocaine.

One can only hope. Thanks for the updates MM.

 

[Peepers]

UPDATE:


Where there's a good chance of this getting very interesting is with Rob Ford the witness. If Siad refuses to talk and the prosecutor wants to throw the book at him, because they can prove that Rob Ford is a customer (the video), Ford may in fact be called to testify with the impending threat that if he doesn't admit to buying crack from Siad, they'll pursue possession charges. Both are bad outcomes for the Mayor. Imagine Ford on the stand, under oath having to admit to buying crack cocaine. Imagine Ford being taken away in cuffs after being charged with buying crack. I don't know how he's able to function day-to-day with either of these scenarios approaching.

.

I can't see this scenario ever playing out. Section 13 of the Charter of rights protects citizens from having to give self-incriminating testimony (it's similar to the fifth amendment in the U.S.). If Ford ever finds himself on the stand or in a deposition and is asked point blank if he committed a crime - such as smoking crack - he would invoke the protections of Section 13 of the Charter. He cannot be compelled to testify under law.

 

[JWBF]

I can't see this scenario ever playing out. Section 13 of the Charter of rights protects citizens from having to give self-incriminating testimony (it's similar to the fifth amendment in the U.S.). If Ford ever finds himself on the stand or in a deposition and is asked point blank if he committed a crime - such as smoking crack - he would invoke the protections of Section 13 of the Charter. He cannot be compelled to testify under law.

Just as the courts may not be able to do anything, the true death, so to speak, is to take away his popularity. The very thing Robbie feeds on, he needs constant attention, that and someone to blame when things go wrong.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Word is getting out through little bits and pieces of details via cops/lawyers/suspects talking to their friends and spouses that alone say very little but together they're painting a picture: Ford is not being investigated as a suspect, but as a motive that lead to some of those arrested committing a crime. This is why the Chief can't deny Ford's involvement -- because he is involved -- but he probably won't be criminally charged with anything.

I recently heard about the existence of the recording via the same way, a very reliable source who got direct confirmation from a respected source who is in a position to know first-hand. I can't say any more than that. I never doubted it's existence since the Doolittle/Donovan & Gawker reports, but what I was told served to confirm what I believed and most importantly, that the recording still exists.

 

[Peepers]

After what I've pieced together, it's very clear to me that nobody is being protected by the police or the Crown. Revealing Rob Ford as being involved in this investigation before it's carried through would in fact jeopardize the whole thing, closing doors that would make it harder to prosecute charges and limit how far deep down the rabbit hole they can go. I agree that the public is entitled to know if the police have dirt on their Mayor but this will come in due time. I'm told end of this month or beginning of the next, we should hear an update from the Chief himself.

I don't think it is a question of Rob Ford being protected by the police. What I think has likely occurred is Bill Blair is using his knowledge of embarrassing and perhaps incriminating evidence against Rob Ford to exercise control over Rob Ford. This is nothing new with our police force. Bill Blair no doubt learned well from his mentor Julian Fantino who liked to investigate his political opponents in search of dirt.

There is a lot that we don't know right now but one thing that we have learned is long before the Gawker article and long before the raids on Dixon - Toronto police new of the existence of the crack video because a wire-tap picked up conversations describing it's existence and the Mayor's alleged involvement.

The big question that needs to be answered therefore is did Toronto police initiate a separate investigation of Rob Ford as soon as they learned of his ties to known Somalian gang members and drug use? You can be sure that if it was any other high school football coach Police would immediately launch an in-depth investigation which would include wire-taps and undercover surveillance. They would be remiss not to because high-school football coaches - like teachers - are in a position to corrupt the morals of children.

I suspect that Bill Blair did not order an investigation into Ford or Ford would have been the subject of police raids and/or arrests by now. Has he even been questions by police?

If in fact Rob Ford was not the subject of an intense investigation the moment police learned of the video the question for Bill Blair would be why didn't he order an investigation? Make no mistake! Bill Blair would be fully informed of all police matters involving the Mayor and would make all final decisions!

There has been a clamoring in the media for Bill Blair to reveal what he knows about Rob Ford's involvement in the "project traveler" investigation ( headed up by Ford family friend Supt. Ron Taverner!). I don't think Blair can or should reveal too much at this point. What I think should happen is there should be an investigation by an outside force (OPP) into whether Toronto Police investigated Rob Fords ties to organized crime in the same manner that they would if he were a private citizen. If there is evidence that Ford was not pursued as a criminal subject Bill Blair should be charged under the police act and removed from office.

When it comes to lying and corrupt politicians the public always has the ability to vote them out of office. When it comes to lying and corrupt Police chiefs the public is powerless to deal with such tyranny.

 

[jje1000]

Like most people who fancy themselves pundits, Metroman is often wrong in his predictions. I think there was a point in this thread where it was predicted that Ford would be leaving in handcuffs that afternoon. Many of the predictions are open-ended. If the video doesn't appear in the next week, we won't be saying he's wrong in the present information, we'll just say it hasn't happened yet. There will be new tidbits from sources to move it along. Not that I mind his contributions, it's an interesting voice in the mix here and keeps the story moving along. I've just come to not put too much stock in these sudden hints of developments in the story. Like when a big event or disaster happens and you're watching it unfold on TV. You learn to regard half of what is said on-air as just part of the excitement and a long way from news.

I don't think anyone predicted what actually happened - they never do, about wars, or economics or anything else. No one here who believed a video existed would have predicted that two months on it still wouldn't be seen, especially with the money being raised, and that Ford would still be free to openly deny everything about it.

To be honest, I doubt that any predictions at this time would be totally accurate at all except for the two constants- a video that apparently exists, and Rob Ford who stars in it. There are just too many things that we don't know right now.

IMO, Ford will never be arrested or resign. If the video comes out, the main damage will be entirely self-inflicted- his denial of its existence.

 

[Adaax]

To be honest, I don't care about Ford facing any legal consequences for this, as long as we're focused just on the crack thing. Drug laws are silly, and substance abuse should be treated, not punished. On the other hand, the release of the video will show that Ford: a) lied about the whole thing, b) hangs around with some pretty seriously hardcore criminals, c) quite possibly is linked to violence around this video going all the way up to homicide, and d) is pretty much totally compromised as a public figure. I don't need the handcuffs. I just need Ford out of office and focused on getting healthy for the sake of his wife and kids.

Now Doug...he's a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[CowboyLogic]

That's true, but the gist of it all is that even on the point where Ford gets his most support, some fiscal conservatives can see that Ford's not really doing anything to improve city efficiency and cut waste. All he really did in terms of reducing spending was impose an across-the-board cut for all programs rather than selectively reduce waste where it's at. (i.e. windrow plowing, police budget).

It's really more that it's all talk and superficial fluff, no real study and cost-cutting where it counts. And yet it still perplexes me that Ford is continuously held up as the messiah or savior of the city. I'd much rather wait for a better candidate to come along in the next election rather than throw my vote in with Ford.

He definitely could have done better spending-wise, but I also believe he has made some pretty significant changes. He dramatically slowed gross operating budget increases, contracted out garbage collection services and struck deals with unions, while keeping property taxes low and eliminating other taxes (vehicle registration tax, bag tax). There's been some things which he's attempted to accomplish - such as reducing council or some of his spending cuts which were reversed - which would have done some good too.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

He definitely could have done better spending-wise, but I also believe he has made some pretty significant changes. He dramatically slowed gross operating budget increases, contracted out garbage collection services and struck deals with unions, while keeping property taxes low and eliminating other taxes (vehicle registration tax, bag tax).

I wouldn't call anything Ford did particularly significant. The most significant thing in your list was the garbage privatization, but that's nothing compared to what his predecessors accomplished. And given your political leanings, I'm surprised that you listed the deals with the unions as one of his major changes. Ford has made Toronto Police the highest paid in the county, and made TTC an essential service, ensuring high wages till the end of time. Neither is something a conservative should be happy about. Everything else you listed was day-to-day administrative work that would need to be done regardless of who was in office.

What was probably the single most significant thing Ford has done in his term was probably his ill advised and very likely illegal failed cancelation attempt of the Transit City project, which costed taxpayers somewhere in the ballpark of $200 Million. I can't think of any other mayor who can come close to having wasted so much money in one term, let alone in one day like Ford did.

But what is more significant is what he hasn't done:

- He hasn't stopped the "gravy train". Aka, cutting taxes without cutting services. On the campaign, Ford endlessly talked about the hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars he'd be able to save Toronto without cutting a single service. When it came time to get to cutting that waste, Ford's own reports showed that the there was relatively little that could be done to save cash without cutting services. The city was a well run machine.

- The pro motorist mayor hasn't done anything to help fix the Gardiner expressway, which is scheduled to collapse on Toronto commuters within the next four years. In fact, he's done more than anyone to get in the way of fixing the Gardiner by ordering the studies being done on the expressway to be stopped.

-He hasn't built any new transit. The transit under construction today is all from the Miller era. Transit is the single biggest issue, and Ford has done nothing to help fix it.

-He hasn't significantly cut our taxes.

-He's done nothing to address our infrastructure deficit

-He hasn't reduced union wages

-He hasn't privatized the TTC

-He hasn't gotten rid of streetcars

I could keep going...

 

[Voltz]

He definitely could have done better spending-wise, but I also believe he has made some pretty significant changes. He dramatically slowed gross operating budget increases, contracted out garbage collection services and struck deals with unions, while keeping property taxes low and eliminating other taxes (vehicle registration tax, bag tax). There's been some things which he's attempted to accomplish - such as reducing council or some of his spending cuts which were reversed - which would have done some good too.

Despite Ford's slogans to the contrary, in the end he is hardly some fiscally prudent politician. His screwing around with transit alone will end up costing the city well beyond whatever he has actually saved elsewhere. If his supporters would stop blinding themselves to his failings then they might realize this.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

He definitely could have done better spending-wise, but I also believe he has made some pretty significant changes. He dramatically slowed gross operating budget increases, contracted out garbage collection services and struck deals with unions, while keeping property taxes low and eliminating other taxes (vehicle registration tax, bag tax). There's been some things which he's attempted to accomplish - such as reducing council or some of his spending cuts which were reversed - which would have done some good too.

Reducing Council isn't over yet. Contrast the above with Ford moving to cancel two transit projects, "Transit City" (est. $49M) & "Scarborough LRT" (est. $85M) for a total of $135M in wasted money.

 

[CowboyLogic]

I wouldn't call anything Ford did particularly significant. The most significant thing in your list was the garbage privatization, but that's nothing compared to what his predecessors accomplished. And given your political leanings, I'm surprised that you listed the deals with the unions as one of his major changes. Ford has made Toronto Police the highest paid in the county,

This, I do not support. I was talking about his deals with other unions, which it is my understanding were fairly reasonable and executed with no disruption to the city.

and made TTC an essential service, ensuring high wages till the end of time.

I do support this though. The TTC is an essential service. People rely on the TTC not only for work but to simply function in the city. Its especially important for the elderly and for lower-income people (who might not have the option of driving or taking a cab for the duration of a strike). Thankfully I use the TTC less than once a month now, but there was a time when I would have been stuck without it for even a weeks time. Transit is an essential service by any measure. If the cost of this is increased wages, so be it. There are some areas in which spending is necessary.

Everything else you listed was day-to-day administrative work that would need to be done regardless of who was in office.

I'm not sure how dramatically slowing the increasing rate of the gross operating budget from the Miller years is "day-to-day administrative work" that would be done regardless.

What was probably the single most significant thing Ford has done in his term was probably his ill advised and very likely illegal failed cancelation attempt of the Transit City project, which costed taxpayers somewhere in the ballpark of $200 Million. I can't think of any other mayor who can come close to having wasted so much money in one term, let alone in one day like Ford did.

If you look at the gross operating budget under Ford and compare it to under Miller, it is apparent that much more than $200 million would have been wasted annually if Ford were to continue on as Miller did.

He hasn't stopped the "gravy train". Aka, cutting taxes without cutting services. On the campaign, Ford endlessly talked about the hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars he'd be able to save Toronto without cutting a single service. When it came time to get to cutting that waste, Ford's own reports showed that the there was relatively little that could be done to save cash without cutting services. The city was a well run machine.

This is more of a failed campaign promise than anything else. He has cut taxes, but he's had to cut services too. Either way, I support cutting some services (depending on what they are). Its still cutting spending.

There are a lot of services in the city which constitute "gravy trains" in themselves. For instance, the Toronto library spending large amounts of money annually on DVDs, which was one of Ford's "controversial" cuts.

The pro motorist mayor hasn't done anything to help fix the Gardiner expressway, which is scheduled to collapse on Toronto commuters within the next four years. In fact, he's done more than anyone to get in the way of fixing the Gardiner by ordering the studies being done on the expressway to be stopped.

Fair enough.

He hasn't built any new transit. The transit under construction today is all from the Miller era. Transit is the single biggest issue, and Ford has done nothing to help fix it.

He is in the process of doing this with the Scarborough subway extension.

He hasn't significantly cut our taxes.

He has kept property tax increases incredibly low, has cut two taxes (the vehicle registration tax and, admittedly not a top priority, the bag tax) and is in the process of either reducing or eliminating the land transfer tax. Considering some councilors want to introduce new, significantly high taxes to fund future projects, I feel Ford's record on this front is better than anyone else's. He's been as anti-tax as is reasonable.

In fact, I'm surprised that you would chastise Ford for not significantly cutting taxes when the common criticism of him is that new taxes have to be implemented to fund transit. Even for the Scarborough extension, Ford is only implementing a minimal property tax increase.

-He hasn't privatized the TTC

-He hasn't gotten rid of streetcars

He never campaigned on these issues and, beyond sounding off on privatization or his hatred of streetcars, never gave any indication he was going to do these things.

 

[CowboyLogic]

Reducing Council isn't over yet. Contrast the above with Ford moving to cancel two transit projects, "Transit City" (est. $49M) & "Scarborough LRT" (est. $85M) for a total of $135M in wasted money.

I'm not sure if this is a waste or not, and I'll have to do a bit more research and reading before I sound off on "Transit City."

I do think that subways are more preferable to LRTs and that LRTs constitute short-term thinking, but I'll have to do a bit more reading before I sound off with an opinion on whether the cost of cancellation was worth it.

I do recall reading that one of the LRTs (Scarborough?) would only be able to fulfill the transit needs of the area for the next 20-30 years, but I'll have to confirm this.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This, I do not support. I was talking about his deals with other unions, which it is my understanding were fairly reasonable and executed with no disruption to the city.

I do support this though. The TTC is an essential service. People rely on the TTC not only for work but to simply function in the city. Its especially important for the elderly and for lower-income people (who might not have the option of driving or taking a cab for the duration of a strike). Thankfully I use the TTC less than once a month now, but there was a time when I would have been stuck without it for even a weeks time. Transit is an essential service by any measure. If the cost of this is increased wages, so be it. There are some areas in which spending is necessary.

I agree with you on this. I just find it very ironic that the most anti-transit, anti-union, anti-civil servant mayor we have in years has ensured that the TTC and TPS will be incredibly highly paid for decades to come.

This is more of a failed campaign promise than anything else. He has cut taxes, but he's had to cut services too. Either way, I support cutting some services (depending on what they are). Its still cutting spending.

It wasn't just a failed genuine campaign promise. It was a complete and utter lie. Rob Ford knew full well that there was no gravy to cut. This imaginary gravy train was nothing less than a tactic to mine votes.

He is in the process of doing this with the Scarborough subway extension.

The Subway isn't coming. It is yet another political sham from Ford. The project is nowhere near funded. It requires $1.8 Billion from the province to be funded, but they're only chipping in the $1.4 Billion that they previously promised. It also requires federal funding. No indication that is coming anytime soon. All Ford has done is further delay work on the SRT replacement.

Well to be fair, Stintz had a lot to do with it. But since it was Ford took it upon himself to champion the project and lie about it in Council, I'll assign some blame to him as well.

In fact, I'm surprised that you would chastise Ford for not significantly cutting taxes when the common criticism of him is that new taxes have to be implemented to fund transit. Even for the Scarborough extension, Ford is only implementing a minimal property tax increase.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love taxes to be raised. We need it for transit. I'm chastising him for making fanciful promises of huge tax cuts, without cutting services while at the same time building subways. He fully knew that his promises couldn't be delivered. The only taxes he cut are the relatively tiny VRT and the bag tax. In total, they amount to less than $100 per year if you own a car. And if you're one of the countless Torontonians who don't own a vehicle, the savings probably amount to less than $20 a year. I'm sorry Mr. Mayor, but it's going to take more than a shiny $20 bill to buy my vote.

Yet another example of this guy blatantly lying to taxpayers.