Rob Ford's Toronto

[Tewder]

Again, take note of what you're defending. With this in mind, maybe it's *better* that such idiots are blocked.

And if that's the kind of "downtown elitism" you sought to flee; well, good riddance, philistine.

i don't know, i don't think it is philistinism to affirm individual property rights over old bricks. It's a different issue if a building is or should be listed or protected in some way obviously, but bashing and insulting people does the heritage 'cause' more harm than good really... and isn't it just this attitude at the crux of the Ford Nation/urban elitist divide? Whether we're talking about latte-sipping poseurs or heritage zealots it's about the all too easy perception of being completely out of touch. Ford taps into it like a Sun Tzu master.

 

[guitarchitect]

And so continues the Game of Seats... Holyday to run for Ontario Tories
The question is - is it Doug's ticket out of the Mayor's office, or is it the Fords' attempt to use Holyday as a pawn to get an ally into the provincial gov't?

 

[James_D]

And so continues the Game of Seats... Holyday to run for Ontario Tories
The question is - is it Doug's ticket out of the Mayor's office, or is it the Fords' attempt to use Holyday as a pawn to get an ally into the provincial gov't?

I'm going to have to say the former as robbie has neither the intelligence or foresight to strategize the latter.

 

[dforthandbview]

Latte-sippers are common everywhere. Starbucks and Second Cup are all over the place, and are generally indicators of relative wealth, middle class and up. It doesn't matter if that wealth is on Yonge Street downtown, or it's in Richmond Hill... or Oakville for that matter.

One can buy a latte at Tim Hortons, as well.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Typical "downtown lefty" view. They forget we all pay the same amount of taxes and deserve the same amount of services.

Beyond the labelling and oversimplification, the assertion that everyone pay the same amount of tax is false. Property tax is based on property value and property value differs.

Really...considering the overwhelming disproportionate amount of revenue the city receives from "downtown", it's beyond insulting to listen to that kind of comment. Downtown is the engine of Toronto's economy. Even more so since the manufacturing jobs of the former boroughs have been evaporating.

If tax dollars were spent where they were collected, every downtown street would have gold-plated subways and the former boroughs would have donkey carts.

Even the TTC ran a profit before they had to accommodate the boroughs.

I'm all for equal services throughout the city, but this animosity towards the very goose that lays the golden eggs from the ingrates is annoying.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Really...considering the overwhelming disproportionate amount of revenue the city receives from "downtown", it's beyond insulting to listen to that kind of comment. Downtown is the engine of Toronto's economy. Even more so since the manufacturing jobs of the former boroughs have been evaporating.

If tax dollars were spent where they were collected, every downtown street would have gold-plated subways and the former boroughs would have donkey carts.

Even the TTC ran a profit before they had to accommodate the boroughs.

I'm all for equal services throughout the city, but this animosity towards the very goose that lays the golden eggs from the ingrates is annoying.

Its the exact same nonsense we hear at the provincial level. About how Toronto is sucking in all of Ontario's money.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I don't know if you'd consider skirting the laws, taking credit where none is due, using city resources for personal hobbies, constantly smearing others, and plainly twisting the truth to be 'good' in other's eyes. Ford is bad, period. You need to separate the man from his policies- his policies appeal to that portion of the population, but the man himself is not good for the city. The same policies can be implemented through a better character like Holyday.

I completely agree. Before Ford revealed himself to be an unrepentant criminal and irredeemable subhuman, this was an ideological debate. Now that even the wilfully ignorant and the stupid can see what Ford is, it's no longer ideological, but a question of poor judgement, extreme stupidity or malevolence. Ford's current supporters no longer deserve to be understood or examined. If one really supported the agenda that Ford claimed to want to pursue, handing off to Holyday is more sensible than supporting Ford.

And I really dislike Holyday.

 

[ttk77]

Holyday is running so the PCs can pit councillor against councillor in a name recognition battle. I doubt it has anything to do with either of the Ford brothers. There's nothing to lose either since they aren't forced to give up their council seats unless they win.

 

[GenerationW]

Really...considering the overwhelming disproportionate amount of revenue the city receives from "downtown", it's beyond insulting to listen to that kind of comment. Downtown is the engine of Toronto's economy. Even more so since the manufacturing jobs of the former boroughs have been evaporating.

If tax dollars were spent where they were collected, every downtown street would have gold-plated subways and the former boroughs would have donkey carts.

Even the TTC ran a profit before they had to accommodate the boroughs.

I'm all for equal services throughout the city, but this animosity towards the very goose that lays the golden eggs from the ingrates is annoying.

They might have gold-plated subways if most people who worked downtown also lived there. But they don't and they never will even with the condo boom. People will always care more about where they live than where they work, and that's what makes the dis-proportionality of revenue not so cut and dried.

So prepare to remain annoyed.

There's nothing to lose either since they aren't forced to give up their council seats unless they win.

Which is dumb. Any politician running mid-term for a different level of government should be forced to resign and be declared ineligible to run until the next (in this case) municipal election. There should be a price to pay for bolting.

 

[CowboyLogic]

I don't know if you'd consider skirting the laws, taking credit where none is due, using city resources for personal hobbies, constantly smearing others, and plainly twisting the truth to be 'good' in other's eyes. Ford is bad, period. You need to separate the man from his policies- his policies appeal to that portion of the population, but the man himself is not good for the city. The same policies can be implemented through a better character like Holyday.

With the exception of smearing others (most who deserve it in my books) and taking credit where none is due (what's new in politics?), I don't have a problem with any of these.

The only law I'm aware Ford has skirted was the COI case, and I've long maintained that entire case was nonsense and they were nailing him on a technicality. If this forum feels any different, then they're in the minority - most of the Ford haters I know (lets just say I don't live in the suburbs) were with him on that one. City resources for a personal hobby? Please, Ford has a better track record than the majority of councilors when it comes to spending city money and using city resources.

 

[Eug]

Yeah, that whole conflict of interest case was just stupid.

One can buy a latte at Tim Hortons, as well.

Heh, you know what I mean.

BTW, the first time I saw that they sold lattes at my local Tim Hortons a couple of years ago, I asked for my usual decaf latte with lactose free milk. The server just looked at me, annoyed, and said, "We're not Second Cup". I didn't realize their lattes were pre-fabbed in a machine.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Cowboylogic:

Please, Ford has a better track record than the majority of councilors when it comes to spending city money and using city resources.

I am not aware that any city councillors were able to demand meetings with city staff to deal with what are basically issues of with direct personal interest. Staff time is also a city resource (putting a side the issue of the ethics of the act for a moment). So on what basis are you making the factual claim that he has a "better track record"? Plus, what of the activity of the mayor's office staff - the budget of which is significantly higher than that of the per year allowance for the councillors.

The only law I'm aware Ford has skirted was the COI case, and I've long maintained that entire case was nonsense and they were nailing him on a technicality.

The bit about technicality was funny because he basically got off on the basis of one as well. Anyways, you are a new member - I am curious as to when you had a chance to "long maintained" your stance on the forum.

Eug:

I think the CoI case is important in that it brings to light he has absolutely no understanding of what CoI is about. There is arrogance in claiming that one has learned everything they need to know from their father.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yeah, that whole conflict of interest case was just stupid.


Heh, you know what I mean.

BTW, the first time I saw that they sold lattes at my local Tim Hortons a couple of years ago, I asked for my usual decaf latte with lactose free milk. The server just looked at me, annoyed, and said, "We're not Second Cup". I didn't realize their lattes were pre-fabbed in a machine.

Prefabricated? The leftie hipster in me just screamed.

Off to Starbucks I go.

 

[RC8]

They might have gold-plated subways if most people who worked downtown also lived there. But they don't and they never will even with the condo boom. People will always care more about where they live than where they work, and that's what makes the dis-proportionality of revenue not so cut and dried.

So prepare to remain annoyed.

The people with the good jobs downtown don't live in Scarborough and North Etobicoke either.

 

[Lenser]

I don’t have the numbers to back it up, but I suspect there are well to do folks who very much choose to live downtown, close to where they work, simply because of the increasingly brutal commuting regimen the entire GTA suffers from. So in that sense, the ‘burbs are losing some of their gloss. And people are making that decision because where they live is increasingly being tied to where they work… less commuting time means more personal quality time, plain and simple.

It also works for those who live in Mississauga and work there, too. The idea is that less and less people are keen on having to go from one end of the sprawl to the other, and then back, day after day. Until - and if! - we ever get public transit truly sorted out in this town, it'll be more and more like that. Gridlock foists its own priorities on us all.