Rob Ford's Toronto

[The_Waffler]

Asterix, if streetcars were the cheapest alternative with the greatest cost benefit per trip, why did the TTC retract the network and go with buses?

 

[doug]

My understanding is based on a diesel locomotive,

Good for you...when we get our diesel streetcars, you can be the expert.

The DC motor (on a diesel locomotive) is famous for ground problems when operating in excessive snow, blowing snow, or water. On the newer AC drive units, ground faults caused by these environmental concerns are eliminated

Indicating that you don't have a firm grasp of basic electricity.

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't change what I've said.

I didn't change anything, i quoted you, and you still fall flat.

 

[The_Waffler]

Good for you...when we get our diesel streetcars, you can be the expert.

Are the traction motors not essentially the same?

 

[The_Waffler]

Ok, Doug, traction motors don't suffer from ground fault issues during inclement weather.

 

[doug]

Do you have any idea what a ground fault is?

 

[The_Waffler]

Yes.

 

[doug]

I don't think so...you've made it very clear that you don't have much of a clue.

 

[The_Waffler]

I don't think so...you've made it very clear that you don't have much of a clue.

Explain?

 

[doug]

Why don't you explain what you think a ground fault is, and how it applies to a ground referenced electric streetcar and the floating ground on a diesel train?

 

[nfitz]

Asterix, if streetcars were the cheapest alternative with the greatest cost benefit per trip, why did the TTC retract the network and go with buses?

The routes that were retracted were generally the lesser used ones. None of the big east-west downtown routes were removed other than Bloor-Danforth, or Harbord that is close to Bloor.

If you go through the routes now, there's only a couple that jump out as perhaps not requiring the capacity. Kingston Road (which only has 13 streetcars peak ... though 2/3 of the route is on Queen and King, so if it was cut you'd only save 4 or 5 streetcars). And Lakeshore west of Humber where the Queen service is only once every 10 minutes peak; there's only 18 cars between Long Branch and Neville and Humber to Long Branch is only 6 km of the 24 km route. So another 4-5 cars saved there.

So perhaps one can justify replacing 8-10 streetcars with buses without causing huge problems. After that it get's painful.

 

[Asterix]

Asterix, if streetcars were the cheapest alternative with the greatest cost benefit per trip, why did the TTC retract the network and go with buses?

Are you referring to history from the 1960s and 1970s? You'd have to look at the arguments both sides presented back when they did that.

With below subway demand, streetcars represent a more efficient means of moving people than buses.

Hence why many cities (cited in these threads often enough) are bringing back streetcars or LRTs or adding to their existing networks.

 

[The_Waffler]

Why don't you explain what you think a ground fault is, and how it applies to a ground referenced electric streetcar and the floating ground on a diesel train?

With respect to a traction motor, Doug, it is when a conductive substance like water creates a path between an energized conductor, such as a cable leading to the traction motor, and likely a frame.

 

[doug]

A "problem" solved over a century ago, with something we call an insulator...google it for more information.

As i said, sounds like you overheard something that you clearly didn't understand.

Your ability to ignore the tough parts of the questions are noted...are you in politics?

 

[The_Waffler]

With below subway demand, streetcars represent a more efficient means of moving people than buses.

I think that is true if you factor out congestion, but having to navigate through traffic and sitting at traffic lights, I think the inherent efficiency is lost. The problem I have with LRT's is that they are generally not separated from surface traffic.

 

[The_Waffler]

A "problem" solved over a century ago, with something we call an insulator...google it for more information.

As i said, sounds like you overheard something that you clearly didn't understand.

Your ability to ignore the tough parts of the questions are noted...are you in politics?

Solved over a century ago? Insulators break down over time. Ground faults are still an everyday problem, which is why the circuity is equipped with GFI.

The fact that you think GF problems are a thing of the past belies a little ignorance on your part. Maybe you said that only to for the sake of argument.