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Rob Ford wants subways, not streetcars

^ Personally, I see it as an effort at gentrification in the negative sense of the term. We can't clean up Jane, so why don't we build an LRT on it? When land values rise, all those icky immigrants and low-income people will leave so that latte-sipping yuppies who buy matching sweaters for their poodles will take over. Starbucks will replace Coffee Time and life will be good....for the city's taxman that is.

Too lazy to clean up Malvern with concerted, long term solutions? Solution: Gentrify. 3 LRT lines should do the trick. Hopefully, land values will skyrocket so much that those socio-economically disadvantaged folks just won't be able to live there anymore. Maybe, they'll all move to Pickering.
 
Malvern isn't disadvantaged at all. Most people in Malvern are better off than the typical 416er and Malvern does nothing to drag down the city in terms of povery or crime or whatever else.
 
Thank you for getting it, gweed. I am not a “right wing” supporter. I support those who want to do what's right. People who truly love Toronto and want it to be a long-term success and to stop witnessing the migration of our valued businesspeople and intelligencia out to the 905 area, will give them real incentive to stick around and allow for the voice of silent majority to be heard.

Teabonics alert: that's "intelligentsia".
 
Teabonics alert: that's "intelligentsia".

Not to nitpick but in my mother's language it would be spelt inteligencja, so intelligencia is probably correct in Fresh Start's native language.
 
Not to nitpick but in my mother's language it would be spelt inteligencja, so intelligencia is probably correct in Fresh Start's native language.

Not to nitpick even more but...

intelligentsia: English
intelligencia: Hungarian
inteligencja: Polish

They're all technically correct but since the rest of his post is in English, I'd say it's less likely his Hungarian roots are showing, and more likely that he heard Glenn Beck misuse it last week.
 
This is a mind-blowing article about the brand new, massive New Delhi subway system.

"A study published last month by the McKinsey Global Institute estimated that by 2030, 590 million Indians would live in cities and 70 percent of India’s new jobs would be in cities. India needs $1.2 trillion in infrastructure to accommodate these new arrivals, the report concluded, including 4,600 miles of railways and subways, and real estate equivalent to the entire city of Chicago every year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/world/asia/14delhi.html?ref=todayspaper
 
Rob Ford wants to be rid of the streetcar, not as a rider, but a driver. They get in his way while driving his car. He would rather replace the current streetcars with buses, like they did in Detroit. Only problem, Toronto will then end up like Detroit.
 
Rob Ford wants to be rid of the streetcar, not as a rider, but a driver. They get in his way while driving his car. He would rather replace the current streetcars with buses, like they did in Detroit. Only problem, Toronto will then end up like Detroit.

Yes - I'm sure the streetcar decision was the root of all of Detroit's problems.
 
What W.K. Lis means is congestion will just get worse. You are going to need 1.5 buses for every streetcar replaced. More vehicles on the road = more congestion. Not to mention, not many people like riding buses.
 
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I honestly don't mind buses. They are more reliable, and faster. Its nice to ride shuttle buses on streetcar routes, as long as they have A/C and they're low floor. If most streetcar routes had ROW then keep them, but they don't.
 
I honestly don't mind buses. They are more reliable, and faster. Its nice to ride shuttle buses on streetcar routes, as long as they have A/C and they're low floor. If most streetcar routes had ROW then keep them, but they don't.

I don't like riding on a bus, never have. They are uncomfortable and don't have a smooth ride, and the bus wheels use up space. As noted by Justin10000, they hold less people. Of course, automobile drivers love them.

Find a 30 year old bus, and you will find it without A/C as well. The new streetcars will have A/C, will be 100% low-floor, and hold more people using all four doors.

I consider buses fourth class (or steerage) public transit. Streetcars are third class, light rail second class, and heavy rail first class. Going first class is of course more expensive, going fourth class is cheapest and it shows. Rather would pay for third and second class transportation, and go first class if I have the money to build them.
 
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I dunno. Those newish buses by Novabus are rather nice. I think the TTC goofed when picking those New Flyer (?) buses. Novabus makes a sleeker better looking bus. If Toronto adapted a bus service like GRT--an iXpress route system overlaid over busier routes, it would be a great solution to transit problems. For example, in Toronto, the iXpress route would only stop at major intersections like Yonge/St George/Bathurst/Ossington/Dufferin/GO Transit/Keele/Jane etc along the Bloor line.
 
TTC uses Orions, and I have a suspicion that the Ontario government had a hand in that choice.
 
I honestly don't mind buses. They are more reliable, and faster. Its nice to ride shuttle buses on streetcar routes, as long as they have A/C and they're low floor. If most streetcar routes had ROW then keep them, but they don't.

The standard for buses is now 12 years, and up to 18 years with a major rebuild. Streetcars can last for 30 years, easy with the PCC's lasting over 58 years. Buses become part of the traffic, streetcars have been proven to control, and calm traffic.

Buses, jerk, and rattle while in motion. Rail vehicles brake, and accelerate smoothly.

Have you ridden TTC's 7400's numbered buses? Only 6 years old, and showing some age.

I'll take a streetcar over a bus any day.

Oh yeah, OC Transpo is replacing much of the D60LF's after ONLY 6 years. The pitfalls of running an intensive bus-only line haul system.
 
How do some of you sleep at night, spreading so many fallacies throughout this forum?

Like streetcars don't make clanging ruckus every time they intersect another streetcar path or a thunderous roar so loud it's difficult to listen one's iPod or have a phone conversation. And don't forget how screechy they get while making turns and the unpleasant vibrations passengers have to endure while on-board. In short, people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

LRTs are not faster than buses. It's the other things being done like having a ROW and wider stop separation that will determine trip times - independent of whether you have an LRT or buses. Here's a good article from a transit planner: http://www.humantransit.org/2009/07/streetcars-an-inconvenient-truth.html. Newer model buses are now coming equipped with reduced fuel consumption, reduced emissions, and lower operating and life cycle costs.

Also do the math. Over 80% of the TTC's vehicular fleet is buses. Buses move over 1.2 million passengers per day, almost all feeding directly into the subway system. Without buses the whole system would implode. And while LRT has a carrying capacity of 200-10,000 pphpd; Busway (i.e. buses running in a private ROW) can acheive 400-12,000 pphpd according to the Advanced Transit Association. We have the unique oppurtunity here in Toronto to acheive such levels of service by putting buses through the Richview-Cherrywood Hydro Corridor, partitioned off sections of Kingston Rd and Finch Ave, and the use of public lands beside Highways 401 and 427. Rapid transit doesn't have to be underground or on rails in order to be effective.

Investing in ANY rail is a major capital expenditure. We can thank Miller and company for frightening us with scary COST figures. But Global cities don't get big by thinking small. To wit: What about the increased financial BENEFITS of building a subway - why does no one offer statistical estimates of that? Sure, subways will incur a one-time $200-million/km construction premium over LRT, let's say, as well as higher annual operations costs. But how do the benefits of increased land value, decreased road congestion, increased TTC revenue, increased economic savings for GTA business stack up for the 100-year lifespan of the subway? Basically, if a subway lasts 100 years (vs 30 for LRT) the net-present value of benefits doesn't only has to be over $2-million dollars net per year/per kilometre of subway in order for the subway spending to worth more than the LRT. Subways pay for themselves. Always have always will. Recent example: Sheppard Stubway's 1 Billion Dollar cost has resulted in 2 Billion Dollars of development and is still going strong. In the 100+ years of Red Rocket service downtown, much of it still runs through urban slums and stable neighbourhoods adverse to redevelopment.
 

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