Rob Ford wants subways, not streetcars

[Fresh Start]

I'm not Pro-Ford so much as I'm Anti-Miller (which automatically negates Giambrone, Pantalone and Mammoliti); and Anti-waste which doesn't bode well for Smitherman. Rossi's Anti-Transit so that's a non-starter for me right there. I personally want Sarah Thomson to win but she's polling so low right now and with the media painting her as a one-track, one-issue pony; who else is there to pick from? Seriously Toronto, is this the best we could find?

All I was saying though is that Ford's weight issues and false allegations made by feuding spouses during a potential child custody case are no more relevant to the issues than Giambrone's crusty couch. I'm positive that the majority of us have had politically incorrect thoughts or have made inappropriate comments from time to time; so I'm not looking towards a politician whose human just like us to be a paradigm of saintly virute nor should anyone else.

 

[doady]

Even disregarding the fact that subway expansion does not fit at all with his constant mantra about cutting government spending, I cannot support any candidate who is a wife-beating, loudmouth bigot with a history making stereotypical remarks about Asians, Italians, gays, etc. and starting fights in public.

 

[Electrify]

Yes, but in Toronto's case we have very narrow corridors in most cases where subtracting those lanes for road-median transit ROW is to the detriment of all. The dedicated streetcar tracks along St Clair West were forced onto the public despite countless attempts by the citizens of the area to resist. The TTC was going to do what it wanted to do and no taxpayer was going to get in the way.

Now, with the dedicated streetcar near completion (only the westernmost portion of the project remains unfinished), the street is a mess. The dedicated tracks have taken over half the street. They have squeezed car traffic into 2 ultra thin lanes that, during summer months, can barely accommodate 2 cars driving side by side. In winter, with snow gathering along the edge of the lanes, there is no way for two large vehicles to pass each other. Trucks? No chance. What about bicycles? St. Clair is a cyclist's worst nightmare. It's a death trap. Not only are the auto lanes undersized, they also swerve endlessly. The white lines separating the lanes look like they were painted by someone way over the legal limit. The reason for their constant swerving is the need for a 3rd lane to be created at every stop light along St. Clair. The dedicated streetcar has eliminated the possibility of left turns at dozens of streets along the route. In order for drivers to turn left, they actually have to make a U-turn at a designated U-turn point. Once at these U-turn points, cars are squeezed into undersized U-turn lanes alongside the dedicated streetcar tracks. What about the standard traffic lanes? The TTC decided that it would simply narrow the lane markings to accommodate the turn lane. Result: Three lanes that are too narrow for cars, too narrow for buses, too narrow for trucks, and too narrow to allow bicycles through. Emergency Vehicles especially Fire Trucks? I have witnessed many a times when Fire Trucks are desperately trying to get to an emergency using St. Clair and they can't move or make it by at such a slow pace because of backed up traffic with nowhere to go. Oh and don't forget about the 120 businesses that were shut down during the construction.

No rationally sane person would want Transit City anywhere near their neighbourhood after that fiasco. Certainly not when gambling with the entire province's money. In that regard, taxpayers have absolutely every right to revolt. People don't mind public spending, so long as it benefits the public's interests in the long-run!

It is worth pointing out that St. Clair =/= Transit City. The roads it will be built on will be far wider than St. Clair, and in areas where the road narrows it WILL be a subway (the 'sub' in subway refers to 'subterrain'). Of all the issues I have with Transit City, its space on the roads is the least of my concerns. In fact, as a driver I have no issues being stuck in traffic while I see transit in a ROW or HOV lane zip by. Only thing I wish is that there was more parking near stops available, so I take my car off the road and continue my trip via public transit.

Also, the U-turn setup has plenty of advantages as well. First, it is no worse than intersections that ban left turns altogether, and you won't have to make three rights along side streets either. And secondly, if you are looking for a specific address it allows you to survey the area easily and safely until you locate your destination.

 

[kettal]

I'm not Pro-Ford so much as I'm Anti-Miller (which automatically negates Giambrone, Pantalone and Mammoliti); and Anti-waste which doesn't bode well for Smitherman. Rossi's Anti-Transit so that's a non-starter for me right there. I personally want Sarah Thomson to win but she's polling so low right now and with the media painting her as a one-track, one-issue pony; who else is there to pick from? Seriously Toronto, is this the best we could find?

All I was saying though is that Ford's weight issues and false allegations made by feuding spouses during a potential child custody case are no more relevant to the issues than Giambrone's crusty couch. I'm positive that the majority of us have had politically incorrect thoughts or have made inappropriate comments from time to time; so I'm not looking towards a politician whose human just like us to be a paradigm of saintly virute nor should anyone else.

The L in LRT stands for Lenin, as in Vladmir Lenin because it is a leftist ideology. The H in HRT stands for Hitler, and we know Hitler was right wing because he was always on about "Man, look at the size of the nose on that Jew! Winston Churchill sure is fat, I bet he eats hamburgers all the time!". Whereas people who use the Lenin Rapid Transit are always accepting of fat people, because that's all part of the LRT philosophy.

So either you are a subway fan who likes to make jokes about people's weight, or you are an LRT commie who should be ultra sensitive. There is no in-between.

 

[urbandreamer]

I thought LRT stood for Left&Right need Transit!

 

[LAz]

Jee, I dunno, I bet this guy just wants votes to take away for people who are pissed at idiot miller for legitimate greviences.


Plan for the worst is what I would say. Nothing will happen without activism.

The problems in North America or specifically Canada, governments want their investments NOW or ASAP. Europeens got that a long time ago and they have the network that reflect their mentality

I think a bigger problem is pressure from the auto lobby.

It's pretty clear that whatever he says is based on a pro-car standpoint. Streetcars get in the way of cars, therefore, streetcars are bad. Subway are underground, out of the way of cars, therefore they're good.

Subway is bad news for the car, isn't it?

Several cities, many of which are far more car oriented than Toronto, have had fantastic success with ROW light rail and bus lines. Even if you cannot widen the road and have to invest one lane for transit, that lane can move the capacity of several lanes. My issue with Transit City is with stop spacing too close, so that it will not attract enough choice riders away from driving along arterials and highways.

In places comparable to vaughan and richmond hill? Yeah? Mexico city had a awesome LRT extension some time ago... but perhaps you are seeing the tree and missing the forest - that an outstanding metro system was required first.

Now, with the dedicated streetcar near completion (only the westernmost portion of the project remains unfinished), the street is a mess. The dedicated tracks have taken over half the street. They have squeezed car traffic into 2 ultra thin lanes that, during summer months, can barely accommodate 2 cars driving side by side. In winter, with snow gathering along the edge of the lanes, there is no way for two large vehicles to pass each other. Trucks? No chance. What about bicycles? St. Clair is a cyclist's worst nightmare. It's a death trap. Not only are the auto lanes undersized, they also swerve endlessly.

Wait a second, they did not say that was how it was gonna be when they were brainwashing the masses with LRT?! Who are you kidding? They wouldn't lie or potray things in the wrong way. Are you trying to trick us or what? [/lrt fanatic, aka idiot]

Why, remember when kettal was saying that driving would be oh so much more better and pleasant when they build the LRTs?

 

[kettal]

Kettal said that in reference to Finch, Sheppard, and Eglinton, all of which will be widened to retain traffic lanes. If you can't tell the difference between that and building LRT in the limited space of St. Clair, then you have no business ranting about it.

 

[LAz]

Kettal said that in reference to Finch, Sheppard, and Eglinton, all of which will be widened to retain traffic lanes. If you can't tell the difference between that and building LRT in the limited space of St. Clair, then you have no business ranting about it.

Sorry, for some weird reason I thought he was talking about sheppard. Don't worry. It'll be the same there.

The others won't even be built. Cheers!

 

[LowerBay]

These LRT/subway arguments are very amusing. Various studies have repeatedly shown that investing in public transportation in the suburbs doesn't pay off, and it doesn't matter if it's subway or light rail. The personal vehicle is and always will be the most cost-effective way to move people around. I predict we'll see a shift to smaller all-electric vehicles in the future and more road capacity. Public transit really has no future. If it did, funding wouldn't be an issue.

 

[andrewpmk]

These LRT/subway arguments are very amusing. Various studies have repeatedly shown that investing in public transportation in the suburbs doesn't pay off, and it doesn't matter if it's subway or light rail. The personal vehicle is and always will be the most cost-effective way to move people around. I predict we'll see a shift to smaller all-electric vehicles in the future and more road capacity. Public transit really has no future. If it did, funding wouldn't be an issue.

This might be true in suburbs with houses on 1 acre lots, but in GTA suburbs where lots are much smaller and where houses are often mixed with apartment buildings this is total BS. The City of Toronto can support dozens high-frequency bus routes even though they run through suburban areas with mostly single-family homes, and much of the 905 is built to a similar density. There is no reason to believe that the GTA cannot support better bus service, if not LRT or even subway on a few busy routes.

 

[LAz]

When the price of petrol goes up high, and it will, the suburbs will scream.




edit:

So either you are a subway fan who likes to make jokes about people's weight, or you are an LRT commie who should be ultra sensitive. There is no in-between.

Commies would be disgusted by LRT for a city like Toronto. Look at the Soviet Union. They built subways like mad - with great results. If a metropolitan area had a million people, a subway line was planned for it, and usually built. If it was approaching a million, preliminary plans were prepared for a subway line.

 

[LowerBay]

This might be true in suburbs with houses on 1 acre lots, but in GTA suburbs where lots are much smaller and where houses are often mixed with apartment buildings this is total BS. The City of Toronto can support dozens high-frequency bus routes even though they run through suburban areas with mostly single-family homes, and much of the 905 is built to a similar density. There is no reason to believe that the GTA cannot support better bus service, if not LRT or even subway on a few busy routes.

Better bus service yes, but spending billions on light rail or subways in the suburbs is a bad investment. Even a subway can't match the speed of the 401. That's why the only people you see on these boards (myself included) are transit geeks. The only transit solution that's worth building is the DRL.

 

[LowerBay]

Ah, we've been hearing about the death of the suburbs for ages now. Well, when's it gonna happen?

 

[kettal]

Suburban Scarborough and North York already have higher transit ridership than most US downtowns. If you think there's no demand, I invite you to try squeeze yourself onto a Finch bus at rush hour.

 

[LowerBay]

Not enough demand for a subway on Finch. Light rail would improve transit on Finch, but it wouldn't be worth the investment. We'd be better off buying articulated buses.