Roads Poll: What would be your ideal Gardiner Tear Down?

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Bizarrely, I've learned to like the Gardiner. Leave it as it is, but build right up to it along its length, and no one will notice it, it will remain a viable route, and it won't cost the world to replace. Heck, in places we could build right over top of it, which would remove it from sight, and reduce weather factors, and free up new development land.

I find the angst over the Gardiner a little bemusing. I find it quite easy to ignore, except when I use it to go Carlaw to Bathurst. Any and all money that would be spent on demolishing the Gardiner and building the alternatives (whether public transit or roadway) could be used to complete all the Waterfront Toronto QQ and Don mouth projects, and our harbour would be such a draw, 'Gardiner angst' would be a thing of the past.

 

[kEiThZ]

Crude oil went from $83 a barrel in October to $105 in March ($107 on April 1st so far.) Only millionaires, like the Ford brothers, will continue to use the Gardiner in any form in the coming years.

Might as well tear the Gardiner down and put all the money saved from not supporting expressways in transit improvements instead.

They have traffic in european cities where gas costs 2-3X the price here. Cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[dunkalunk]

Keep in mind that the annual cost in 2004 to maintain the Gardiner was $12 million. Also, any construction on the central portion could be the push to get Toronto to toll the Gardiner and DVP.

 

[kEiThZ]

... any construction on the central portion could be the push to get Toronto to toll the Gardiner and DVP.

Which is exactly what they should do.

 

[Amy Rose]

Waterfront using TTC gauge, since imo, anything rail south of Bloor that is not commuter should be compatible with the current streetcar system for detour and route flexibility purposes

 

[doady]

I'd rather the Gardiner be kept for new and tolls be added to it to fund transit improvements. Once transit is improved, and the Gardiner becomes underused, and the land around it becomes further intensified, then maybe it can come down, but that should be a long term thing, not short term.

 

[sodapop]

my ideal plan for the gardiner would be to tunnel the central portion of it (although that probably will never happen) and build the downtown relief line, i can see the drl being built by 2030? or am i being to optimistic you never know in toronto

 

[rbt]

Toll Gardiner and reduce LakeShore to 1 lane traffic and one lane parking (bumpouts at intersections) in each direction. Reduce all lights to standard 60 to 90 second timing found everywhere else in the city.

I'm almost always a pedestrian in this area so my thoughts may be biased

 

[kEiThZ]

Why are the transit options on here? They are needed irrespective of what's done with the Gardiner.

I would suggest that all the transit options on the list need to be built. And the Gardiner should be tolled and buried with a proper 6 lane Lakeshore (3 in each direction) built on top (acting as a collectors lanes of sorts), with bikes lanes, wide sidewalks and maybe even parking lanes.

 

[Memph]

When I walk to the waterfront, I find the highway up above much less of a bother than the highway that is Lakeshore Road that I have to cross on foot... I'm not sure what the speed limits are there but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of cars go at 80-90km/h. I think (along with transit improvements) that slowing down Lakeshore and have more frequent pedestrian crossings would be better. It's quite awful at Lower Sherbourne.

 

[GTS]

Hope they tear down the elevated portion of the Gardiner. I wonder if they can put the elevated portion in a trench from Dufferin to the DVP with the downtown portion in a well ventilated tunnel? I read about Korea tearing down one of there elevated expresways and it has been quite a success I heard- they didn't replace that one with an at grade expressway either- they turned the Cheonggyecheon creek area into a park!! I don't think that is necessary for the Gardiner though, but, an at grade expressway, or one in a trench and tunnel, would enhance Toronto's visual appeal greatly. This solution isn't perfect but it is better then leaving it as is.

 

[Towered]

Once again, you guys are all looking at the wrong section of the Gardiner to bury, the elevated one, when the area where it really cuts off the city from the waterfront is south of Parkdale, Sunnyside, where it's at grade. If anything, the part that should be tunneled is from the Humber to Dufferin.

 

[Memph]

Would it make that much of a difference to bury the Humber-Dufferin section if the rail and Lakeshore are stil there though? The bridges that cross it seem nice enough for pedestrians. And you'd still have the on/off ramps coming out of the tunnel.

 

[Chuck]

The Gardiner should be torn down and NOT replaced, but only when the costs to maintain it become unmanageable, possibly in 10-15 years. In the mean time, let's make it obsolete by upgrading transit (GO and local), building the Front St. extension, improving traffic flow on one way streets, and reworking Lakeshore Blvd. To spend money on tunneling, trenching, or rebuilding the Gardiner would be a colossal waste.

West Street in NYC would be a great example to follow. It may be 10 lanes wide with fast moving traffic, but it's well landscaped with a wide median, has great walking trails along the river, and signaling is flawless - by grouping traffic into pulses that almost never have to stop, a pedestrian either sees heavy traffic or no traffic at all when it's time to cross.

 

[kEiThZ]

Once again, you guys are all looking at the wrong section of the Gardiner to bury, the elevated one, when the area where it really cuts off the city from the waterfront is south of Parkdale, Sunnyside, where it's at grade. If anything, the part that should be tunneled is from the Humber to Dufferin.

Would it make that much of a difference to bury the Humber-Dufferin section if the rail and Lakeshore are stil there though? The bridges that cross it seem nice enough for pedestrians. And you'd still have the on/off ramps coming out of the tunnel.

This is why I've always maintained that the entire Gardiner and the rail corridor need to be buried. I don't believe it'd be sufficient to bury just the elevated portion or bury anything and leave the rail corridor untouched.