Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[W. K. Lis]

I really hate the 401 at Kennedy Road in both directions because of the right lane suddenly dropping off, but especially in the eastbound direction. Not only do you have the weaving off the express, you have drivers suddenly forced to shift to the left to stay on the 401.

How can someone "keep to the right" when driving? Especially, when it is the right lane that merges to the left, when it should be the left lane merging to the right.

This is why most drive in the left lanes...

From link.

It is hard to drive like this...

From link.

 

[Deadpool X]

You're talking 400-series, as well as a few others, right? There are all sorts of King's Highways that don't have merge/exit lanes, but do have lots of at-grade intersections, private driveways, etc.

Yes, I am talking about 400 series highways.

If people are following their GPS and aren't paying attention, shame on them. However, there are some bad designs on the 401 express to collector transfers that require aggressive lane changing maneuvers. 401 eastbound from express to Leslie, or Kennedy are examples. I'm not a fan of the design.

I am one of those fortunate ones who lived where I had to take Kennedy exit and after that I lived in a place where I had to take Leslie exit. After a couple of attempts, I learned to move to collectors one transfer before. This is not a highway design issue. It's a signage issue. Right now, it's like MTO trying to challenge driver skills. If they show Kennedy and Leslie exits one transfer earlier, this problem will solve.

As an example the stretch of 401 EB between Markham Rd and Sheppard has some pretty tight curves. I typically slow down to 100-105 Km/hr through this stretch from my usual 115-120 km/hr, especially now where construction has made the lanes narrow. I can't imagine trying to thread a vehicle through that segment at 130 Km/hr with traffic, weather, etc.

Similarly the 409/427/401 triangle has some pretty tight curves that are tough to navigate at 120 let alone 130+ (I'm thinking specifically of the 409 EB to 401 EB merger)

I don't see that as an issue. On a highway with 120 speed limit, there can be speed restricted sections like the ones you mentioned where speed limit can be 100 or 110. We don't even need variable signs for that. It's like rural highways that have a speed limit of 80 in countryside and the speed limit drops to 50 when they are passing through a town.

 

[11th]

I really hate the 401 at Kennedy Road in both directions because of the right lane suddenly dropping off, but especially in the eastbound direction. Not only do you have the weaving off the express, you have drivers suddenly forced to shift to the left to stay on the 401.

In that case, the right lane has to drop off, or else those coming off express will have to do three lane changes to exit Kennedy.

 

[turbanplanner]

Attractiveness. A key driver in highway safety.


The SCOC has ruled that no cause is required. Police can randomly stop vehicles to check for a valid d/l, vehicle registration, insurance, vehicle fitness and driver sobriety.

This is true but the judge will still give them shit if they "just had a hunch" no judge will object to pulling someone over for speeding.

 

[picard102]

How can someone "keep to the right" when driving? Especially, when it is the right lane that merges to the left, when it should be the left lane merging to the right.

This is why most drive in the left lanes...

It is hard to drive like this...

Do you drive?

 

[Dan416]

I am one of those fortunate ones who lived where I had to take Kennedy exit and after that I lived in a place where I had to take Leslie exit. After a couple of attempts, I learned to move to collectors one transfer before. This is not a highway design issue. It's a signage issue. Right now, it's like MTO trying to challenge driver skills. If they show Kennedy and Leslie exits one transfer earlier, this problem will solve.

This is why I get off at the 410 exit for Mavis rather than waiting for the one that’s actually signed for Mavis. Funny that the MTO keeps making these transfers so poorly.

 

[ShonTron]

This is why I get off at the 410 exit for Mavis rather than waiting for the one that’s actually signed for Mavis. Funny that the MTO keeps making these transfers so poorly.

Another trick I use is going westbound on the Gardiner headed towards the 427/401 is get into the collector lane at Kipling Avenue: it lines up perfectly with the lane I want, rather than wait for the weaving zone further ahead. It’s the Gardiner now, was built for the QEW.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Do you drive?

Have you ever driven on the 400-series of highways and end up behind someone doing exactly 95 km/h in the middle or left lane? Passing on left is not possible.

In some jurisdictions, they have different speeds over the traffic lanes. Usually the slowest speed limit over the right lane and increasing the maximum over each left lane, for passing purposes.
Image from US...

 

[picard102]

Have you ever driven on the 400-series of highways and end up behind someone doing exactly 95 km/h in the middle or left lane? Passing on left is not possible.

I commuted on the 401 for years.

 

[Dan416]

Another trick I use is going westbound on the Gardiner headed towards the 427/401 is get into the collector lane at Kipling Avenue: it lines up perfectly with the lane I want, rather than wait for the weaving zone further ahead. It’s the Gardiner now, was built for the QEW.

I do this too

 

[lenaitch]

How can someone "keep to the right" when driving? Especially, when it is the right lane that merges to the left, when it should be the left lane merging to the right.

On Hwy 400 and the odd time I'm on 404 and 407, I drive in the right lane most of the time. It's not that hard, but interchanges are relatively far apart.h It's admittedly harder on the 401 across the GTA. Driving in the right lane means you have to deal with lane changing and merging traffic. If drivers can't deal with that they shouldn't be out there, and clearly many should not. they camp out in the middle to minimize conflicts.

Right lanes (not merge lanes) ending happen for any number of reasons, and you just have to deal with it. What, to me is simply bad highway design is right lanes exiting.

This is true but the judge will still give them shit if they "just had a hunch" no judge will object to pulling someone over for speeding.

Any copper standing in court saying they stopped a vehicle 'on a hunch' deserves to have their charges tossed. There is no authority to stop a vehicle 'just cuz'; for the reasons I listed above. It's called 'articulable cause'. If you can't articulate the legal basis for the stop (or any other enforcement for that matter), your fishing trip should rightfully come to an end.

In some jurisdictions, they have different speeds over the traffic lanes. Usually the slowest speed limit over the right lane and increasing the maximum over each left lane, for passing purposes.
Image from US...

I've never quite understood the logic behind lane-specific speed differentials. It seems to me that it would cause more problems than solve, but I have no experience with them and am not a traffic engineer.

 

[Deadpool X]

How can someone "keep to the right" when driving? Especially, when it is the right lane that merges to the left, when it should be the left lane merging to the right.

This is why most drive in the left lanes...

From link.

It is hard to drive like this...

From link.

Left lane is the fastest lane. Having left lane merge is much more dangerous. Also, right shoulder lanes are always wider than left shoulder lanes for obvious reasons. If you are on the rightmost lane and it's ending, you can run off into the shoulder if you couldn't merge for whatever reason. You don't have that luxury when left lane is ending. You either hit the divider or another vehicle.

 

[gweed123]

Left lane is the fastest lane. Having left lane merge is much more dangerous. Also, right shoulder lanes are always wider than left shoulder lanes for obvious reasons. If you are on the rightmost lane and it's ending, you can run off into the shoulder if you couldn't merge for whatever reason. You don't have that luxury when left lane is ending. You either hit the divider or another vehicle.

Agreed. This is something in US interstate design that always bothered me, especially on mainlines.

They do this on ramps too though. If two lanes need to merge into one lane, the lane on the right should merge into the lane on the left, not the other way around.

 

[W. K. Lis]

 

[cbrown2009]

2 things: 1) I drive every kilometre of the 400 series within the GTA, and also the DVP, Gardiner and QEW, every so often and I can do 130 over every bit of main freeway laneage if I so desire, congestion and weather permitting. Except portions of the DVP & Gardiner. It "can" be done, but definitely some sections requiring extreme care.The eb409\401 entry ramp is also an exception, but that's a ramp for all intents and purposes. On the 407, 130 isn't even enough to stay in the left lane. On that hwy I tend to stay in lane 3 from the left except to pass (in the wider sections).

2) The number one issue I observe is the left lane hogs doing 95km/h. A lot of congestion, faster-moving vehicles weaving in and out of the non-left lanes and such are directly caused by slow movers in the left lane. I can't tell how many times I encounter "crowded" conditions on these hwys, only to discover at the head of the line are a bunch of vehicles all lined up beside each other doing the same speed across all the lanes and therefore not allowing anyone to pass. Sometimes, if I'm especially annoyed, I'll do this: once I'm finally ahead of the left lane slow mover, I'll get in the left lane and gradually slow down in front of them to the point where they are forced to move to the right looking to get past me, then I'll speed away and watch as piles of cars looking to get by pour through the opening I've just helped to create. And how often do you see the left lane hog driving with a death grip on the steering wheel, as they are clearly unable to deal with the speeds that are expected when in the left lane, but won't move over?

We need to more strongly enforce the left lane rule here. In the US, you can't cruise in the left lane. Do it long enough and you run the risk of being pulled over. The left lane is to be used as a passing lane. Cruise on the right; when a slower vehicle is encountered, switch to the left, execute the pass and then get back to the right. It's been posted here many times that we should also change those "slower traffic keep right" signs to "keep right except to pass" signs. Better wording that may help to keep the left lane more clear.

The HOV lane being the left-most lane confuses the issue, as people now thing they can cruise in any general purpose lane, but by hwy etiquette, the left lane should still be the fastest moving lane, as each lane to the left should see an uptick in general speeds, similar to the visual example shown above.

I, for one, am there for autobahn-style rules, where the right lane is regulated, moving left speed limits go up and the left-most lane(s) is/are no limit. On the 407, which is the closest thing we have to sane driving locally, in that drivers get it pretty quick not to lollygag in the left lane(s), as folks are over there regularly doing 140+. The 401 express/collector system is actually well-suited to a structure that could state limits of 120 km/h in the express and 100 km/h in the collector.. And yes, for kicks, I occasionally drive across Toronto in the collectors only and it's quite doable in the left 2 main lanes without having to do much lane changing (for lane alignment reasons, anyways)..