Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

[ksun]

Well there are plenty of million dollar homes downtown in walkable neighbourhoods like Cabbagetown or the Annex, (which ksun would call the "burbs", but most wouldn't), so why would she decide to move to the burbs (which I take to mean places like Northern Scarborough or Etobicoke)?

No, I don't call the Annex and Cabbage town burbs. Stop putting words in my mouth.

My definition of the burbs is: if almost every time you leave your house it involves a car, then you live in the suburbs. When you drive a car to watch a movie or simply buy some small household stuff, you live in the burbs. If there is not even a grocery store within a 15 minutes walk, you live in the burbs.

It also has little to do with the distance to downtown. For example, many parts of Rosedale are pretty suburban life style to me. Imagine if you live at Highland Ave/Binscarth Road. That doesn't appear urban, nor can you stick to a walkable/transit oriented life.

Do you agree? It has nothing to do with houses vs condos but rather to do with dependency on cars. Northern Scarborough has a lot of condos with absolutely nothing within walkable distance, and that's pure suburb.

 

[ksun]

The comment I responded to was not about where they grew up but, rather, that they all drive back to their suburban houses and backyards. I am pretty sure that 1 Bedford is his primary residence.

sure, when he is 60 years old.
Where did he live when his kids were 10 years old? Where did he live MOST of his life?

 

[ehlow]

No, I don't call the Annex and Cabbage town burbs. Stop putting words in my mouth.

My definition of the burbs is: if almost every time you leave your house it involves a car, then you live in the suburbs. When you drive a car to watch a movie or simply buy some small household stuff, you live in the burbs. If there is not even a grocery store within a 15 minutes walk, you live in the burbs.

It also has little to do with the distance to downtown. For example, many parts of Rosedale are pretty suburban life style to me. Imagine if you live at Highland Ave/Binscarth Road. That doesn't appear urban, nor can you stick to a walkable/transit oriented life.

Do you agree? It has nothing to do with houses vs condos but rather to do with dependency on cars. Northern Scarborough has a lot of condos with absolutely nothing within walkable distance, and that's pure suburb.

I'm pleasantly surprised, ksun. Yes, I agree, walkability is the main difference between urban & suburban to me. You're right, I shouldn't put words in your mouth, sorry.

 

[BurlOak]

sure, when he is 60 years old.
Where did he live when his kids were 10 years old? Where did he live MOST of his life?

Only the "purloin " can consider themselves Torontonians. No outsiders allowed because downtowners, unlike suburban folks, are inclusive.

 

[TOareaFan]

sure, when he is 60 years old.
Where did he live when his kids were 10 years old? Where did he live MOST of his life?

again how does it relate to the comment I responded to.

 

[TOareaFan]

No, I don't call the Annex and Cabbage town burbs. Stop putting words in my mouth.

My definition of the burbs is: if almost every time you leave your house it involves a car, then you live in the suburbs. When you drive a car to watch a movie or simply buy some small household stuff, you live in the burbs. If there is not even a grocery store within a 15 minutes walk, you live in the burbs.

It also has little to do with the distance to downtown. For example, many parts of Rosedale are pretty suburban life style to me. Imagine if you live at Highland Ave/Binscarth Road. That doesn't appear urban, nor can you stick to a walkable/transit oriented life.

Do you agree? It has nothing to do with houses vs condos but rather to do with dependency on cars. Northern Scarborough has a lot of condos with absolutely nothing within walkable distance, and that's pure suburb.

I'm pleasantly surprised, ksun. Yes, I agree, walkability is the main difference between urban & suburban to me. You're right, I shouldn't put words in your mouth, sorry.

I go weeks on end some times without taking my car out of the garage! Congrats Heart Lake...you are no longer suburban

 

[ksun]

I go weeks on end some times without taking my car out of the garage! Congrats Heart Lake...you are no longer suburban

really? you mean you can walk to buy groceries, watch movies, go to restaurants, banks and stores, visit doctors/dentists, without using your car in Heart Lake? How long can you last without a car? For me, it is forever. I don't even need a car to go to the airport. What about you?

I don't believe it. There are very few places in Canada you can do that.

 

[ksun]

I'm pleasantly surprised, ksun. Yes, I agree, walkability is the main difference between urban & suburban to me. You're right, I shouldn't put words in your mouth, sorry.

no worries. I am learning a lot of urban issues on this forum, and many of my beliefs are changing (improving).

 

[TOareaFan]

really? you mean you can walk to buy groceries, watch movies, go to restaurants, banks and stores, visit doctors/dentists, without using your car in Heart Lake? How long can you last without a car? For me, it is forever. I don't even need a car to go to the airport. What about you?

I don't believe it. There are very few places in Canada you can do that.

I was using myself as an example of why car should not be the only measure (a good part of a blended measure, sure, but not the only measure).

Most of the things you mention above doctors/dentists/banks/restos are geared around where I work. So much of my stuff is done during the day on lunches or breaks from the office. The obvious exception being groceries but we tend to lead a "big shop every few weeks....pick up fresh things on way home" kinda life. Could I walk to a grocery store in Heart Lake....yeah I think I could....but in the interest of honesty I don't.....but I still can go several weeks without using a car. I think the longest I have gone was during last winter where I went about a month. Even if I did not centre those other things around my office I think the only one on your list that I could not walk to would be the movies...but I am no more than a 10 minute bus ride away from the movies....if I wanted to .

My wife, on the other hand, is in her car every day.....but in her line of work it is mandatory and wether we live in Heart Lake or in the condos at Nelson and Simcoe....she would need to be in her car every day (the other side to the example that car use is not and should not be the total measurement).

 

[ehlow]

I'm sure many have already seen this, but walkscore map where green is walkable:

https://www.walkscore.com/CA-ON/Toronto

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm sure many have already seen this, but walkscore map where green is walkable:

https://www.walkscore.com/CA-ON/Toronto

They have an interesting tool on that site showing travel times by various modes (transit, car, bike, foot)....you simply pick your mode and drag the time slider across and the map area you can get to expands.

The tool would be more interesting, however, if it were accurate. My best time getting to Union station from my house by 100% transit was 1 hour and 7 minutes. Typically it is in the 1 hour and 20 minute range. According to their tool, however, all I can do (in a SE direction) in an hour (the maximum time the slider allows) is get to around the 401 and 427 area.

The walkscore site (IMO) has some utility in central areas of cities but the further you get out the less reliable it is...perhaps its true useage is on a relative scale (ie my area is less walkable than Liberty Village.....but I think people already would know that).

 

[salsa]

John Tory lives downtown and downtown and the areas surrounding downtown and along the subway lines, voted mostly for him.

These are all places where transit & walking mode is high and are usually described as "urban".

These are indisputable facts.

Or in other words, Tory's electoral support coincides with where most of the wealth is.

 

[Rainforest]

Or in other words, Tory's electoral support coincides with where most of the wealth is.

Surprisingly, this can be said about both Tory and Chow.

In many poorest areas, Doug Ford was in the lead.

 

[mdrejhon]

Or in other words, Tory's electoral support coincides with where most of the wealth is.

Tory has a 74% approval rating.
That's crystal diamond sparkling by Toronto standards.
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...honeymoon_approval_rating_a_sparkling_74.html
- That means people who didn't vote for him, are approving him.
- That means suburbanites are tolerating him. 76% approval rating from Etobicoke.

We might have the Toronto equivalent of Mayor Michael Bloomberg (NYC, 3-term, 2002-2013) or Mayor Jean Drapeau (Montreal, '54-'57, '60-'86). Michael Bloomberg was a priveleged wealthy Republician in a Democratic city, and still got 3 terms, and cheerleaded a lot of progressive-sounding initiatives including as NYC's giant bikesharing system (world's biggest). His approval ratings remained consistently high, so democrats were voting for a republician repeatedly.

Currently, Tory is ahead of Bloomberg in sweetheart rating. And if he doesn't lose too much approval rating (even Bloomberg fell from 50% to 40% at the beginning). He just has to aggresively attend a lot of transit opening ceremonies to get to 2nd term. Help along Union revitalization, attend UPX ribboncutting, attend Vaughan extension ribboncutting, get shovels in ground for SmartTrack/GO RER. And once he makes it to 2nd term, he ribboncuts Crosstown and SmartTrack almost simultaneously, helping him to 3rd. Meanwhile, Tory attends all the GO RER ribboncuttings. And so on. He's going to preside over Toronto's most massive rail transit expansion ever being ribboncut in less than one generation in Toronto's recent history (UPX+SmartTrack+Crosstown+GO RER+Vaughan Extension+Scarb Extension). Although other governments started some of that, the ribboncut dates are pretty unusually tightly packed compared to the last 20 years. And while waiting between ribboncuttings, do a lot of behind scenes work plus lot of minor transit-improving initiatives such as all-door boarding and buying TTC fares/passes with debit/credit, etc.

It looks like Tory may actually end up determining Gardiner's fate, since replacement may begin under Tory's possibly long tenure.

TOAreaFan was right. Tory may still be around then.

I'll be honest. He seems to be pressing the right Toronto transit buttons so far. As long as he accepts upcoming Ontario demands for GO RER criteria for SmartTrack, and it helps GO RER rather than interferes with GO RER, helps speed up those initiatives (whether by creative branding or otherwise), if the whole GO network becomes 15-minute dedicated surface subway with triple number of inside-416 infill stations, I'm okay with almost any of Tory Gardiner decision including demolition, keeping, burying, or replacing. (Tip: please add pretty under-deck or edge-of-deck LED accent lighting if you replace the viaduct. It needs to be prettier if it must be replaced. Ha.)

(EDIT: This is post #666 of this thread. Hmmmmmm. Good or bad?)

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

They have an interesting tool on that site showing travel times by various modes (transit, car, bike, foot)....you simply pick your mode and drag the time slider across and the map area you can get to expands.

The tool would be more interesting, however, if it were accurate. My best time getting to Union station from my house by 100% transit was 1 hour and 7 minutes. Typically it is in the 1 hour and 20 minute range. According to their tool, however, all I can do (in a SE direction) in an hour (the maximum time the slider allows) is get to around the 401 and 427 area.

The walkscore site (IMO) has some utility in central areas of cities but the further you get out the less reliable it is...perhaps its true useage is on a relative scale (ie my area is less walkable than Liberty Village.....but I think people already would know that).

Well to be honest. Once you've hit the 401/427 area you are really only a 10 or 15 minute drive to the core (barring severe traffic). So that seems to be right.