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Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

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What to do with the Gardiner?

Bury it...

Downtown Montreal (Highway 720)
http://www.montrealroads.com/roads/A-720/img2.gif
http://www.montrealroads.com/roads/A-720/img17.gif

Put tolls on the Gardiner to help pay for the construction cost...
-Drivers can either pay toll or us Go Transit (when applicable)

The problem?

lack of political will
lack of courage
The greed to be elected at any cost to not offend the voter who drives to work downtown


Lost benefit? A much bigger, greener, less sounds and more beautiful waterfront
 
Ansem said:
The problem?

lack of political will
lack of courage
Click to expand...
The problem is cost. The Boston project was of a similiar magnitude ... and it cost over $10-billion ... and that's not even in current dollars. And ignores that much of the Gardiner is built on lakefill ... tunelling will not be cheap or simple.

And what's the benefit? I've seen reports that commute times in Boston from downton to the suburbs are now worse than they were before it started, because of the induced demand. Though it certainly has improved travel for those simply in the city itself.

If there's no real improvement in long-haul commutes ... then think what one could do for the same cost.

And using road tolls to improve transit infrastructure is a beneift to drivers. Getting 20% or so of the traffic off the roads makes a huge improvement in travel times when you drive. Just ask anyone how much quicker their commute was on Easter Monday ... or on a school holiday!
 
During my visit in Toronto this afternoon, I noticed that Gardiner ramps to Lake Shore and Jameson are under construction. Apparently, Jameson is partially demolished and is being repaired in several stages.

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/lake_shore_bridges/index.htm

T.O. apparently is working on this to accommodate the future Waterfront West redevelopment. Is Waterfront TO directly involve in this?

What would the reconfigured intersection mean? Will the height will be changed to accommodate further range of vehicles in the future? The possibilities are uncertain, yet optimistic...



* Mods, if there is a similar thread to this one, could you close this thread (or merge with an existing thread?)
 
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hbl33 said:
During my visit in Toronto this afternoon, I noticed that Gardiner ramps to Lake Shore and Jameson are under construction. Apparently, Jameson is partially demolished and is being repaired in several stages.

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/lake_shore_bridges/index.htm

T.O. apparently is working on this to accommodate the future Waterfront West redevelopment. Is Waterfront TO directly involve in this?

What would the reconfigured intersection mean? Will the height will be changed to accommodate further range of vehicles in the future? The possibilities are uncertain, yet optimistic...



* Mods, if there is a similar thread to this one, could you close this thread (or merge with an existing thread?)
Click to expand...


A number of bridge (Jameson, Duffrin, ???) are being completely rebuilt and required closing off those ramps as well as removing the far left lane from each direction. I don't know what that has to do with Waterfront Toronto or Waterfront West plan though.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
A number of bridge (Jameson, Duffrin, ???) are being completely rebuilt and required closing off those ramps as well as removing the far left lane from each direction. I don't know what that has to do with Waterfront Toronto or Waterfront West plan though.
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I think it's that the Waterfront West plan has talked about moving the southern lane of Lakeshore to the north side of the Gardiner between Dunn and Jameson, which requires that the current reconstruction of some of the bridges be done with thought to widening them in the future.
 
The Jamieson bridge is definitely not part of the Waterfront West project. The Waterfront West project will widen the two Lakeshore westbound bridges over the Gardiner to make them two-way, eliminate the Jamieson bridge over the Gardiner completely, and move the eastbound Gardiner off-ramp to Lakeshore to a point east of the current Jamieson exit.
 
EnviroTO said:
The Jamieson bridge is definitely not part of the Waterfront West project. The Waterfront West project will widen the two Lakeshore westbound bridges over the Gardiner to make them two-way, eliminate the Jamieson bridge over the Gardiner completely, and move the eastbound Gardiner off-ramp to Lakeshore to a point east of the current Jamieson exit.
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No Jamieson isn't, but the current project is doing three bridges; the Jamieson bridge and also the two Lakeshore bridges that may be widened in the future.
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...-gardiner-in-mammoliti-s-waterfront-plan?bn=1

Candidate’s plan would turn expressway into a skyway and send drivers along an eight-lane Lake Shore Blvd.
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter

Cars would be banned from the Gardiner in favour of transit, pedestrian and cycling lanes, and drivers would be confined to an eight-lane Lake Shore Blvd., according to a $1.3 billion waterfront plan unveiled Tuesday by mayoral candidate Georgio Mammoliti.

The vision of University of Toronto architecture professors Ivan Saleff and Robert Wright, reimagines the Gardiner as a 6-kilometre “Skyway” similar to New York’s High Line, a pedestrian park that’s been built along an old elevated rail corridor. It would be open down the middle, like a giant skylight over Lake Shore.

“The Gardiner would open just like Moses opened up the sea,” said Mammoliti at a water’s-edge press conference near Cherry St.

Drivers, who would depend on Lake Shore Blvd. and a Front St. extension, would be tolled $2 to enter the city during the rush hour. They would also have the option of parking in two giant lots near the CNE and the foot of the Don Valley Expressway for the day for a $15 fee that would also include a transit pass.

Mammoliti’s plan also includes 12 new Sky Parks that would equal about 15 Yonge-Dundas Squares.

In the second phase of his plan, Mammoliti envisions transit lines to the Toronto Island and airport. The island would also be home to a convention centre and hotel.

“The whole thing talks about turning a mediocre waterfront into something special, … just like the Chicagos and the Vancouvers of this world,” he said.

Mammoliti wants to pay for the plan over four years using $200 million annually in revenue from a floating casino in the Toronto harbour, about $100 million annually in parking fees and about $75 million from road tolls.

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Mammoliti just turned the gardiner into rape alley and crime central. And also the world’s most expensive sidewalk. This guy is out to lunch. Why on earth would dozens of thousands of people use the gardiner to walk around on? That’s the threshold you’d need to reach to make it an active environment.
 
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I actually like the idea of turning the Gardiner into a linear park similar to the High Line in New York. I think if there were convenient access points, it could be popular with the downtown residents. His idea of building parking lots outside the core, and providing transit service to finish their journey is not new, isn't it? I believe this idea was done in a few German cities. I personally like the idea of charging drivers a flat rate to enter the city.

That part of the plan, I actually like. The rest of his plan is pretty crazy. It IS possible to build a transit line to the Island(LRT over the Eastern Gap, but why? Why would you ruin the beauty of the islands with development, and a transit line that will probably be seasonal? This guy should just save his money ,and bow out. He totally killed a pretty cool idea by trying to develop the islands.
 
^ Elevated linear park stands out, but linear park at the ground level is actually more attractive.

If they do proceed with Gardiner removal, could they dig DRL subway into that strip before doing the surface level? A bit too far south, but if it rediuces the cost considerably ...
 
Mammolitti has some wacky...wacky ideas... I don't even know why he is running!

Me thinks he's been hired by someone to be the 'monkey wrench' in this whole debate.

Possibly Pantalone... if you saw the last mayoral debate... definately some backroom politic'ing going on.
 
The High Line in NYC was converted because the trains used a new subway below.

Using this analogy, a "Big Dig" needs to be made for the Gardiner before the elevated section can be converted. Doing without it makes no sense.

Besides, I doubt a lot of people will use it. Too many stairs/ramps to climb up and down to make it an effective pedestrian route.
 
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