Roads: Increase Ontario 400-series Highway Speed Limit

[georgevicbell]

It won't happen on a province wide basis until there is a pilot...my suggestion is that either the 401 to London/Ottawa or 400 be modified for a summer long trial - put blackouts over the existing signs, and temporary digital signs that can display either 60-120 in increments of 10 - this would allow for changes during heavy traffic and bad weather. Hook the signs up to transit control, and add some cameras if there needs to be more visibility.

At the same time add temporary signs to the entrances and problem spots - "slow cars stay right"...etc. and then get Del Duca and Wynn out on the radio shows telling people the only way it expands is if we show it's safer...then increase enforcement on shoulder periods (weekends, nights) when people are likely speeding.

A succesful pilot would be where there are similar or less accidents causing major injury or death - this is likely if you can slow vehicles down in inclement weather.

 

[TOareaFan]

A succesful pilot would be where there are similar or less accidents causing major injury or death.

So an unsuccessful pilot would be if there are more accidents causing major injury or death? What then, Wynne and DelDucca apologize to the people with major injuries and/or the families of the deceased with a "sorry, we were just experimenting. Too bad for you"?

 

[Duck]

People in Ontario have yet to prove they can properly drive at 100 km/h, so I don't see why they need to be rewarded with a higher limit. I absolutely hate driving between Kitchener and Toronto (or anywhere on 401) because nobody knows how to follow "Keep Right, Except to Pass". The number of people I see camped out in the middle and left lanes (at any speed - fast and slow) is ridiculous. This simple concept is seemingly completely oblivious to >90% of drivers.

My biggest fear with going up to a 120 or 130 limit with harsher penalties or zero tollerance is that people will drive exactly at that limit... and nothing is more frustrating than when traffic is a "moving wall" of everyone in all 3 lanes going exactly the same speed. At least now, with that ~30 km/h variance between all 3 lanes (generally), it permits enough of an ebb and flow to it that people who want to drive fast can find a way through, and people who want to drive the limit can do so safely.

 

[crs1026]

My biggest fear with going up to a 120 or 130 limit with harsher penalties or zero tollerance is that people will drive exactly at that limit... and nothing is more frustrating than when traffic is a "moving wall" of everyone in all 3 lanes going exactly the same speed. At least now, with that ~30 km/h variance between all 3 lanes (generally), it permits enough of an ebb and flow to it that people who want to drive fast can find a way through, and people who want to drive the limit can do so safely.

Part of the problem is that (especially in the areas close to Toronto), many motorists move to the left lane just to drive at the posted speed, or get out from between closely-spaced trucks.

Within the GTA, highways are just too congested to keep the left lane clear for others to pass. If the left lane is solid, but moving well at 115-120, no one should be expecting to move faster. The entire left lane from Toronto to London is frequently this full. It's not reasonable to expect this entire convoy to move over just so one guy (usually in a Beemer or Mercedes) can blast by at 140.

Further out, where volumes are lighter, restricting use of the left lane to passing is doable.

Another thing that would help is to enforce the middle lane as "drive at the posted speed". That reduces number of vehicles feeling the need to "escape" to the left lane. Trucks should not be pulling into the middle lane just to overtake other trucks, when their speed differences are only a few kph. They should only be there once they have hit posted speed, and only if they can maintain it.

Lastly, weaving and passing on the right is worst of all - so needs aggressive enforcement.

- Paul

 

[Duck]

If I am able to pass someone on the right, then that means they are in the wrong lane.

Agreed that trucks passing each other with 1-3 km/h difference is very disruptive to the flow of traffic; this is somewhat of a "preview" of what I mean with everyone going exactly at a higher limit. Greater speed differentials right now mean that passing takes much less time to do, which keeps traffic clear.

Traffic on 401 through Toronto is a totally different beast, and I agree, it's probably not practical to expect people to follow the "Keep Right, Except to Pass" rule. At least not all the way to the right. Enough people merging and de-merging would make this almost impossible.

But I don't agree that it's acceptable for everyone to just sit in the left or centre lane doing 120 km/h for no reason, with no one on your right, because "it's fast enough".

I guess in 20 years this will all go away, because we'll all be driving automated cars which will be able to go at 150 km/h with a 0.5 metre buffer between them and it really will just be a solid moving wall, and nobody will care because they're browsing facebook or reading the news.

 

[gweed123]

What I'd like to see is this:

1) Variable speed limits installed on all 400 series highways (but starting with a pilot project).

2) 130 on 6+ lane rural freeways, 120 on 4 lane rural freeways and urban freeways, 110 on urban expressways. Those are for bright sunny days and clear road conditions. 10 km/h lower at night and during rain, 20+ km/h lower during snowstorms and fog. The speed limit should reflect the 85th percentile speed for that roadway at that time.

3) Variable speed limits and vehicle restrictions for each lane (ex: 130 left, 120 centre, 110 right, and no trucks in the left lane).

For the pilot project, I would select the 401 between Clarington and Cobourg (6 lanes, very straight), or the 401 between Milton and KWC. The pilot projects would be most effective on 6+ lane cross sections in rural areas.

 

[Promagstyle]

Speed on the 400 series highways, depends on the type vehicle I'm driving. I rarely go above 120 km/h due to mechanical issues with the vehicle, as the increase in speed means more wear and tear on the automobile. I guess this is the majority of personal preference, but the faster you drive... more fuel burn... mechanical issues will appear more frequently.... shorter vehicle life.

However, I'm down for 120 km/h!

*Another issue is people driving with their high beams on with no apparent reason.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

It is the variance between the speeds of the vehicles on the road that is more dangerous than any set speed limit. How many times I have come across someone doing 90 on a 400 series highway (usually at night without their taillights on), for any motorist doing 100, 110, or even 120+ the delta between the speeds creates dangerous situations both as others try to get around this vehicle and the danger that, any collision will be severe.

 

[gweed123]

It is the variance between the speeds of the vehicles on the road that is more dangerous than any set speed limit. How many times I have come across someone doing 90 on a 400 series highway (usually at night without their taillights on), for any motorist doing 100, 110, or even 120+ the delta between the speeds creates dangerous situations both as others try to get around this vehicle and the danger that, any collision will be severe.

Exactly. The delta is the bigger threat to cause a crash, not the speed (within reason). Even more so when that slow person is in a lane other than the right lane.

 

[cplchanb]

I think in order for variable speeds to work there needs to be enforcement of the minimum speeds as well. Cops should ticket people who are excessively slow in the fast lanes

 

[TOareaFan]

I think in order for variable speeds to work there needs to be enforcement of the minimum speeds as well. Cops should ticket people who are excessively slow in the fast lanes

what is excessively slow?

 

[cplchanb]

what is excessively slow?

8/90 on the fast lane on a sunny day for no reason in current conditions

100 if the fast lane is 130

 

[TOareaFan]

8/90 on the fast lane on a sunny day for no reason in current conditions

Seems unrealistic to expect folks to be ticketed for 10km/h below a posted speed limit when, from what I read here, no one gets a ticket for going over that limit by the same amount.

100 if the fast lane is 130

If the point of ticketing slow(er) drivers is for safety....100 in a hypothetical 130 zone seems a whole lot more dangerous than 90 in a 100 zone.

 

[cplchanb]

Seems unrealistic to expect folks to be ticketed for 10km/h below a posted speed limit when, from what I read here, no one gets a ticket for going over that limit by the same amount.



If the point of ticketing slow(er) drivers is for safety....100 in a hypothetical 130 zone seems a whole lot more dangerous than 90 in a 100 zone.

well its all relative, the point I wanted to bring across is that slow drivers are equally a hazard on the freeways as unreasonably excessive (30+) speeders

 

[sixrings]

maybe they can increase the limits when they introduce tolling.. That way people can feel theyre getting something for their tolls immediately.