futurebound
New Member
highways don't break even? unless you toll highways it's impossible to break even.
highways and trains are public services, they shouldn't be expected to be profitable/break even.
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Roads: Highway 401 Widening - Highway 8 to Highway 410 (MTO, U/C, Planned)
- Thread starter salmonz
- Start date
highways and trains are public services, they shouldn't be expected to be profitable/break even.
LemonCondo
Active Member
Every public infrastructure and service other then rail: Yeah seems fine
Rail:
Unless your in America, then it's rail and the post office.
Rail:
Unless your in America, then it's rail and the post office.
Deadpool X
Senior Member
That's why I said they can break even easily. The toll doesn't have to be expensive for highways to break even. I am not talking underground or elevated highways.
Steve X
Senior Member
There is a different way to look at it. It can break even with economical benefits. The amount of time commercial entities would save thus investing more in the region, which would lead to more tax income for the government. It would also attract more people to move to the region (potentially internationally) which would pay taxes to the government. It's much more complicated to calculate but it's there. We can all say the 401 broke even long time ago without collecting a single cent from toll. Without the 401, the GTA would be way less jobs thus people would move elsewhere hence less tax income for the government.
Haljackey
Active Member
Here's a new vid of the stretch. Traffic still congests at the bottleneck, but at least the bottleneck has been moved from Mississauga to Milton. Once the widening finally gets pushed to Kitchener it will be more of a longneck bottle rather than a stubby,
crs1026
Superstar
Be careful with this one. There needs to be an apples to orange comparison between modes. And revenue sources. With highways, people throw in all sorts of benefits, and all sorts of taxes that they have paid, while expecting airports and railways and transit to "break even".
One has to first identify the operating costs and how these compare to direct revenue.
Then one has to identify the capital cost, and the amortization of that, from any residual revenue.
And then one may be able to "forgive" any deficit on the basis of less tangible benefits.
- Paul
innsertnamehere
Superstar
the bottleneck is also a small fraction of what it was before the widening.
It's the same thing on the 400 - the bottleneck has moved from Major Mack to King Rd with the HOVs addition, but it's much, much smaller than it was before.
afransen
Senior Member
They are typically evaluated on a benefits/costs analysis basis (BCA). Social benefits vs cost.
afransen
Senior Member
In the same way, the TTC has 'broken even' long ago.
LemonCondo
Active Member
Haljackey
Active Member
Haha well if you just one more lane bro'd the already wide sections you're not going to do much. If anything you're going to make the bottlenecks worse.Things just need to transition better and as @innsertnamehere mentioned the recent project not only pushed the bottleneck further away but diminished the effects of it (at least for now).
Pushing 10 lanes (8+2 HOV) west to Kitchener is going to be all we can really do from a road transport view to alleviate congestion unless you're building completely new freeways. The transit front needs to step up with more frequent, reliable service and/or high speed rail.
robmausser
Senior Member
The worst bottleneck was when the collectors/express, HOV lane AND the 407 all merged together at Ninth Line. That was brutal and thankfully short lived.
darth_freeman
Active Member
HOV to Kitchener will be game-changing. A lot of transit between the two areas is on GO Busses.
drum118
Superstar
Any vehicle that can't do 100 km at all times in the express lanes should be ban period from using it
A real pain been forced to sit behind someone doing 80 in the curb lane while trying to find an opening to pass this slow sucker. Makes no different if its a car or truck. Trucks are the worse offenders
Traffic was backup at least 5 km before the interchange before the Grand River bridge due to 3 lanes going into 2
West of 24 to 6 was slow going and nice to see the centre barrier in at 24
12 single drivers pass me in the HOV and all were doing 150 plus as I was doing 120 and were out of sight in no time. They were the only vehicles I saw in that useless lane.
A real pain been forced to sit behind someone doing 80 in the curb lane while trying to find an opening to pass this slow sucker. Makes no different if its a car or truck. Trucks are the worse offenders
Traffic was backup at least 5 km before the interchange before the Grand River bridge due to 3 lanes going into 2
West of 24 to 6 was slow going and nice to see the centre barrier in at 24
12 single drivers pass me in the HOV and all were doing 150 plus as I was doing 120 and were out of sight in no time. They were the only vehicles I saw in that useless lane.
just east of the creek
Active Member
As soon as the government decided to sell permits for one person usage of the HOV lanes, the game was up. Enforcement is generously described as spotty, and I am sure the HOV will be eliminated in the future as a vote getter at the expense of the ‘elites’. However you can always load the 20 year old pickup with a load of bales, a passenger, hang the 5 ton float and load on the back and head out on the HOV at a steady 90 klicks, which is about top speed, except for grades, and then it’s 80 tops. Works all the time! Wave as you go buy.