Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

[Steve X]

That confirms it then. Highway 410 to be realigned to N-S alignment after Mayfield and will join GTA West. I wonder what will happen to the existing 410 spur to Highway 10? Perhaps decommissioning and removal of the Hurontario interchange.

I don't see why they need to modify it. The existing 410 should be renumber as highway 10 and serve as the connector between 410 and current highway 10. It needs to maintain high speed traffic flow for highway 10 northbound traffic. It can't be transformed to a local road since the new 410 doesn't appear to join up with highway 10. Now I wonder if they will design the highway to allow extending the 410 to Orangeville in the future. Clearly adding a parclo on highway 10/GTA west doesn't help with a future twinning or upgrade to RIRO.

The same applies to the 427. They look like T interchanges similar to the 407/412 and 407/418 in the preferred route.

 

[BurlOak]

That confirms it then. Highway 410 to be realigned to N-S alignment after Mayfield and will join GTA West. I wonder what will happen to the existing 410 spur to Highway 10? Perhaps decommissioning and removal of the Hurontario interchange.

I don't see how that Mayfield bridge can be retained, since it was built on a skew to accommodate the curve to hwy. 10. Not only is that ~30M cost lost, it's also quite inconvenient for Mayfield traffic when it's rebuilt.
Maybe that short connector road should have been built more as a collector/arterial, with the speed limit being lowered on 410 from 100 to 80 or 70 just south of Mayfield - similar to what existed at the top of hwy. 427. This would be downloaded as a new municipal road when this expansion is completed. That way, the highway could have been aligned straighter. Consider before that there was no connection from highway 410 to 10 before and you just had to somehow make your way from Heart Lake road over to 10.

 

[Translude15]

I don't see why they need to modify it. The existing 410 should be renumber as highway 10 and serve as the connector between 410 and current highway 10. It needs to maintain high speed traffic flow for highway 10 northbound traffic. It can't be transformed to a local road since the new 410 doesn't appear to join up with highway 10. Now I wonder if they will design the highway to allow extending the 410 to Orangeville in the future. Clearly adding a parclo on highway 10/GTA west doesn't help with a future twinning or upgrade to RIRO.

The same applies to the 427. They look like T interchanges similar to the 407/412 and 407/418 in the preferred route.

If MTO extends the 410 north to GTA West then Hurontario is accessible via GTA West. Conversely, drivers can access 10 via Mayfield if they want to avoid toll charges. Would make more sense to make Hurontario a continuous route north of Mayfield as well.

 

[BurlOak]

PIC #2 - Technically Preferred Route

View attachment 206190

It's about 40km to Guelph - starting from that roughly 90 degree north-to-east bend (near Mayfield/Mississauga Rd.)

 

[11th]

If MTO extends the 410 north to GTA West then Hurontario is accessible via GTA West. Conversely, drivers can access 10 via Mayfield if they want to avoid toll charges. Would make more sense to make Hurontario a continuous route north of Mayfield as well.

Is Peel Region prepared for the increase in traffic on Mayfield? Almost everyone will find a way to avoid toll charges (including commercial vehicles).

 

[Translude15]

I don't see how that Mayfield bridge can be retained, since it was built on a skew to accommodate the curve to hwy. 10. Not only is that ~30M cost lost, it's also quite inconvenient for Mayfield traffic when it's rebuilt.
Maybe that short connector road should have been built more as a collector/arterial, with the speed limit being lowered on 410 from 100 to 80 or 70 just south of Mayfield - similar to what existed at the top of hwy. 427. This would be downloaded as a new municipal road when this expansion is completed. That way, the highway could have been aligned straighter. Consider before that there was no connection from highway 410 to 10 before and you just had to somehow make your way from Heart Lake road over to 10.

View attachment 206232

They'll probably just re-do some of the off-on ramps at Mayfield. I'd imagine it's possible to re-route the 410 north with the amount of land available.

Is Peel Region prepared for the increase in traffic on Mayfield? Almost everyone will find a way to avoid toll charges (including commercial vehicles).

Depends what the toll charges are. Something half of the 407 would probably be feasible for a lot of drivers.

 

[11th]

Depends what the toll charges are. Something half of the 407 would probably be feasible for a lot of drivers.

That and eliminating the ridiculous extra charges on top of the actual toll.

 

[Steve X]

If MTO extends the 410 north to GTA West then Hurontario is accessible via GTA West. Conversely, drivers can access 10 via Mayfield if they want to avoid toll charges. Would make more sense to make Hurontario a continuous route north of Mayfield as well.

Yes but that would add all the highway 10 traffic onto the GTA west traffic and potentially cause a traffic jam on the off ramp whiling backing up onto the 410 to GTA West highway westbound ramp. That just makes things worse.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't see why they need to modify it. The existing 410 should be renumber as highway 10 and serve as the connector between 410 and current highway 10. It needs to maintain high speed traffic flow for highway 10 northbound traffic. It can't be transformed to a local road since the new 410 doesn't appear to join up with highway 10. Now I wonder if they will design the highway to allow extending the 410 to Orangeville in the future. Clearly adding a parclo on highway 10/GTA west doesn't help with a future twinning or upgrade to RIRO.

The same applies to the 427. They look like T interchanges similar to the 407/412 and 407/418 in the preferred route.

I believe 412 and 418 had no design requirement for northward extension - so 407 did the interchanges to minimize costs, not protect for expansion. That said, I believe it (412) could be extended as the highest level in the interchange and a slight shift westward to lower that elevation a bit and find space to "plant" the piers.

It's not beyond the imaginable that 427 and 410 would be extended north.

 

[innsertnamehere]

They'll probably just re-do some of the off-on ramps at Mayfield. I'd imagine it's possible to re-route the 410 north with the amount of land available.



Depends what the toll charges are. Something half of the 407 would probably be feasible for a lot of drivers.

So the 407 East rates? They are about half the rates of the private portion of the highway.

I can tell you most people still avoid it, but I don't think a lot of people are aware of how much lower they actually are.

If the rates were the same about as the 407 east, it would probably cost about $0.60 to drive from Hurontario to the 410 on the GTA West Corridor, and $0.40 in the off peak, presuming you had a transponder.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

That and eliminating the ridiculous extra charges on top of the actual toll.

Very much this. Whenever I use the 407 it's not even so much the amount of the toll that turns my stomach as how obnoxious the structure of "account fee + trip fee + camera fee + distance" is.

 

[Steve X]

I don't know why they would even consider truck traffic like truck lanes and inspection stations if they are going to set the rate anywhere close to the 407 rate. That would be $60+ rush hour rate to drive a truck from end to end as the highway is ~50km. 407 east rates would put it at ~$30 and might be acceptable if they will save an hour of driving.

 

[innsertnamehere]

If this is even a toll road, I wouldn’t be surprised to see even lower rates than the 407 to be honest.

I’m interested to see if the 407 phase 2 uses lower rates than the rest of the highway since it’s so much more rural of a section. If that section uses even lower rates, I would imagine this would too.

 

[Translude15]

So the 407 East rates? They are about half the rates of the private portion of the highway.

I can tell you most people still avoid it, but I don't think a lot of people are aware of how much lower they actually are.

If the rates were the same about as the 407 east, it would probably cost about $0.60 to drive from Hurontario to the 410 on the GTA West Corridor, and $0.40 in the off peak, presuming you had a transponder.

I'd imagine that's the desired toll level. My guess is the aim here is to help disperse truck traffic off major routes, especially in Brampton. It gets pretty bad on main roads like Derry and Steeles. You've got the proposed CP rail head in Milton which could utilize the 413 and to a lesser extent, the CN Intermodal terminal in Brampton. Ditto the CP terminal in Vaughan by the 427 extension. Highway 50 is also perpetually congested to and from Bolton and the truck traffic there will only worsen as more commercial development occurs in that area.

I don't know why they would even consider truck traffic like truck lanes and inspection stations if they are going to set the rate anywhere close to the 407 rate. That would be $60+ rush hour rate to drive a truck from end to end as the highway is ~50km. 407 east rates would put it at ~$30 and might be acceptable if they will save an hour of driving.

I think 407 East toll rates would make the 413 more appealing to truck traffic.

If this is even a toll road, I wouldn’t be surprised to see even lower rates than the 407 to be honest.

I’m interested to see if the 407 phase 2 uses lower rates than the rest of the highway since it’s so much more rural of a section. If that section uses even lower rates, I would imagine this would too.

I'm sure they will consider that. It's interesting to wonder what 407ETR traffic levels would be like with lower tolls similar to the government owned eastern sections, especially in the central stretch from Milton/Mississauga border to the 404. Given how prevalent E-W travel is through the Golden Horseshoe, at some point the government will have to pay the piper regarding the 407 debacle as it is such an important route that is severely underutilized at the great expense of other major highways.

 

[Neutrino]

^I don't think the 407 is severely underused. When I drive eastbound from 427 at rush, it's nearly bumper to bumper. Yes, the speed is usually about 100 km/h. But there's not a lot of wiggle room. And what spare capacity there is will be eaten up by population growth in the coming years. The GTA obviously needs more higher order east west links. Is there any potential to use the CN rails north of Steeles for frequent passenger service?