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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

Miller disappointed me by being such a wuss...Seriously man. We all know he wants to follow the recommendations of this report and tear it down and that he would do it as soon as he goes back to council after being re-elected..

... but running away like a chicken is not something I expected from him. If Miller stood firm on the issue and expressed leadership in this, he would inevitably get support from voters who would see him as a firm, do what must be done Mayor... but the way he's dismissing the issue and trying to make it go away ASAP was just cowardice.

I'm still voting for him, but this reaction really makes me think less of him.
 
Why not impose a toll on non-Toronto vehicles? Either place the toll stations at the city's boundaries on the Gardiner, 427, 400, 404 and 401 (I'm not sure about 400 series highways -aren't they still the prov responsibility?) or automate it like the 407 and chanrge only vehicles that aren't registered to Toronto addresses. Such a proposal might just force the province's hand to finally start to properly fund desperately needed infrastructure plans.
 
Tolls could have a devastating effect on the economy of the city (less people would be inclined to enter the city if they had to pay something. You are bound to have less people coming into town to eat, shop and go to theatre and museums). London is a strong enough city to support tolls. I do not think any North American city, except New York, is strong enough economically, to put a barrier like tolls between the city and the large population in the suburbs. Heck, we would use more economic activity in the city, not less. If the commerical tax base shrinks (which is happening now), the tolls may never make up for it.

These must be a way to finance the project through increased fees on the waterfront development, maybe an extra 25 or 50 cents in parking fees, 50 cents on hotel taxes, etc (small stuff that would not cause economic disruption, would not require the creation of new infrastructure (like toll roads) and when added up, could help pay the costs).
 
^ Good points alklay.

10 years is a long time to spend $800M. That's $80M per year, totally doable and recoverable through initiatives like those mentioned by alklay.
 
There is also the issue that the city cannot put tolls on roads that it does not own. It owns the DVP, Gardiner, and its section of the QEW, I believe.
 
Boston has tolls on the MassPike. The sky there has not, to my knowledge, fallen.

Boston's tolls, mind you, are quite cheap coming in from the suburbs--much less than the $4.50 in Manhattan. But I imagine that even charging a loonie each way would raise a huge amount of money in TO.
 
alklay:

The problem is that those fees you have suggested probably won't even come close to covering the cost of waterfront revitalization itself (like remediation, new infrastructure, etc), much less the Gardiner.

I think there is a sweet spot as to how much one can toll the Gardiner, below which negative effects are likely to be minimal. Logically, a toll of say $2 is not going to be that onerous to the commerical sector considering 1. the cost of parking in the city and 2. the greatest majority of workers don't drive to get to work. In fact, the sleeper effect could be on those who live in downtown who does the reverse commute on Gardiner/QEW.

AoD
 
Yes a small toll on one highway would probably not be that big a deal (although I am not sure how you would set it up. a 407 type system would may be too expensive administratively and booths would really slow things down). I am not sure how much money it would generate compared to an extra dollar or two on parking.

I was really commenting on the idea of tolling everyone who comes into the city from all points.
 
A 407 system wouldn't be hard at all. There are a couple catches. The biggest would seem to be that special legislation, like that used for the 407, would have to be passed giving the city access to the license plate database. The obvious problem is that the province would then have to take some political heat for the introduction of the tolls. They would probably be willing to do that, particularly since it would be pretty closely identified with the Mayor and Council.

Incidentally, there's also been talk of using the 407 license plate camera system in parking garages. It would mean that you could just drive into the garage and drive out, and you'd be billed at the end of the month. This plan would also be held up by the need for legislation.
 
A toll of $1 or even less would detract no one from coming into the city.
 
What is the goal of the toll? How much are you going to collect? How much is going to be paid through administrative charges? Is this to raise money? To control the flow of traffic?
 
the great street idea is definately the best one. 465 mill to fix up the gardiner compared to 490 mill for great street.lets get going!
 
it's almost criminal that they have been sitting on this report for two years while construction on either side of the gardiner has potentially limited our options and increased the costs.

it was filed away in a desk drawer during a federal election campaign - the best (and often, only) time to secure (often empty) promises of federal funding for mega projects like this.

put it to the people, let them decide what they want to do, let them decide if and how they are willing to pay for it. i think the people of toronto want something big to get behind and get excited about - you see it in the support for the world's fair bid/olympics bid/waterfront redevelopment. instead of engaging the people of toronto in this and challenging them to help make it happen - miller wants to hide the options from them.
 
I have heard that the administrative cost of the London tolls is slightly greater than the money taken in.
 
I'd have to agree that it's baffling that they've buried the report. To quote from it:
"At present, there are reasonable economic phasing strategies possible, but these will soon be lost when development starts on the west section of the railway lands, the East Bayfront, and sites in the central area. Urgent action is needed. An Environmental Assessment should be launched. The right-of-way for the Great Street alignment and the areas needed for phasing construction should be immediately protected while the assessment is undertaken."

The London system has to collect tolls from hundreds of entry points to the city. Toronto would just have to set up gates at a handful of points.
 
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