Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)

[Amare]

I dont think this has been mentioned on this thread, but the city will be rehabilitating the York St (westbound) on-ramp beginning June 2024 and the project will go into early 2025. So if you think you already cant get anywhere in the city, it's about to get even worse.

 

[junctionist]

great pics. makes me envy the cities that just torn theirs down.

It's kind of depressing to basically see a new Gardiner Expressway going up. When you don't actually see the construction, it's not that bad. It's just a "rehabilitation".

But in reality, it looks like it's being torn down and replaced with a new structure. To waste so much in resources (even if it's provincial money) on something that hurts the livability of the downtown core is baffling. We're still so beholden to coddling drivers from the suburbs as a society and uninterested in taking any serious steps towards ending car dependence.

 

[generalcanada]

I dont think this has been mentioned on this thread, but the city will be rehabilitating the York St (westbound) on-ramp beginning June 2024 and the project will go into early 2025. So if you think you already cant get anywhere in the city, it's about to get even worse.

its not that big of a deal. They just need a weekend and some overnight closures.

https://mcusercontent.com/1f816eff0da7fd4b263270fd3/files/b66dca87-6408-ac2c-8fd3-1e6f527ffae6/24ECS_BE_20SB_York_On_Ramp_to_WB_FGGE_Pre_Construction_Notice_aoda_final.pdf

I question maybe at night after jays games or maybe Swift's concert in October but its not going to have that big of an impact

 

[tstormers]

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Understanding this is going to be an interesting 3 years with this construction, I am of the opinion that although not in the immediate horizon when the go to replace the Spadina/Lakeshore section we are in for a larger ____ show. Zero spaces for staging construction and one of the busiest off-ramps the Gardiner has in both directions.

In saying that it seems like the planning/transportation department could have added some extra thought into alternate routes, lane closures etc.. Maybe even some pre planning work for the next stages of the Hybrid option which is the next elevated section to be redone.

Thoughts I had are below and look forward to a discussion on these, both for and against, plus alternatives.

Current Stage:
- extending right lane closure west bound so the Lakeshore Jameson on-ramp can be open at all times and the right lane can be an extended on-ramp for that traffic not having to merge.
- I am unsure why they closed the Jameson on-ramp yet chose to leave the Lakeshore one at the light open as it feels like a worse traffic backup turning left there.
-extra phased light for the west-bound traffic coming down at the Sherbourne off-ramp as the backup and lane switching maneuvers with the Jarvis on-ramp traffic backing up on lakeshore with the lane barriers splitting the roadway in that section.

Hybrid Stage with DVP ramps:
- Look into Bayview and Richmond off-ramps for two lane exiting and widening pre ramp demolition as these are the only 2 south-bound exits and will probably be 10 times worse than the Allen Rd at Eglinton ramp.
- Maybe there is an option to temporarily widen two lanes up to Bloor from the Bayview off-ramp to have more car stacking.
- Adelaide/Eastern on-ramp temporary option for two lanes onto the DVP when construction has only Lakeshore access north. (If that's the case and way they phase it).

I'm sure I have more and sometimes feel like I'd be a good traffic planner, but didn't go to school for that haha. I have submitted some downtown lane options/issues to the city though with a couple minor ones implemented. Just feels like they don't think in more broader terms and preparations for the construction projects in the city overall. Budget is an obvious issue, but gridlock might be equal to or worse for the cities bottom line.

Thoughts? And thanks for taking the time to read this! Cheers.

I am happy they have implemented one of the ideas I had hoped for. Opening Jameson Westbound and pushing the lanes to the left so the right lane becomes a longer onramp.

 

[mburrrrr]

I am happy they have implemented one of the ideas I had hoped for. Opening Jameson Westbound and pushing the lanes to the left so the right lane becomes a longer onramp.

I saw that yesterday. I couldn’t believe the way they had it before. It was still a slow merge at Jamison as some people were expecting lane merging. It can only get better.

 

[turbanplanner]

It's kind of depressing to basically see a new Gardiner Expressway going up. When you don't actually see the construction, it's not that bad. It's just a "rehabilitation".

But in reality, it looks like it's being torn down and replaced with a new structure. To waste so much in resources (even if it's provincial money) on something that hurts the livability of the downtown core is baffling. We're still so beholden to coddling drivers from the suburbs as a society and uninterested in taking any serious steps towards ending car dependence.

This is such a silly take! You’re still going to have a massive road beneath where it’s running. Yeah I get if we were going to turn it into a park and there were no buildings nearby blocking the view but aside from that it seems like a stupid idea people keep calling

 

[T3G]

This is such a silly take! You’re still going to have a massive road beneath where it’s running. Yeah I get if we were going to turn it into a park and there were no buildings nearby blocking the view but aside from that it seems like a stupid idea people keep calling

I would not have phrased it in such a way, but it is hard to imagine how exactly a busy, at grade stroad that absorbs all the traffic that currently uses the Gardiner would improve the quality of life in the core. The whole area was badly conceived from the outset; but for the fact that the area was an industrial wasteland when the Gardiner was built, I would've said that the road should have been buried. Since the Gardener came first the question then becomes for what possible reason did we turn the industrial brownfield sites of the waterfront into residences, knowing that an ugly concrete guideway was in the way? The whole area fully embodies the blinkeredness and short-sightedness of Torontonian city planning.

There are only two solutions for the Gardiner: bury it, or tear it down. We don't have the finances to do the former and doing the latter would be the final coffin in the nail of the city.

 

[turbanplanner]

I would not have phrased it in such a way, but it is hard to imagine how exactly a busy, at grade stroad that absorbs all the traffic that currently uses the Gardiner would improve the quality of life in the core. The whole area was badly conceived from the outset; but for the fact that the area was an industrial wasteland when the Gardiner was built, I would've said that the road should have been buried. Since the Gardener came first the question then becomes for what possible reason did we turn the industrial brownfield sites of the waterfront into residences, knowing that an ugly concrete guideway was in the way? The whole area fully embodies the blinkeredness and short-sightedness of Torontonian city planning.

There are only two solutions for the Gardiner: bury it, or tear it down. We don't have the finances to do the former and doing the latter would be the final coffin in the nail of the city.

I agree the planning was terrible, hell look at the york ramp where you have hundreds of cars turning left onto a stretch of road that fits 4 cars.

 

[junctionist]

This is such a silly take! You’re still going to have a massive road beneath where it’s running. Yeah I get if we were going to turn it into a park and there were no buildings nearby blocking the view but aside from that it seems like a stupid idea people keep calling

It seems silly to drive downtown. I would replace it with a regular but well designed four-lane or even a two-lane road with shops, squares, and parkland all around it.

Eliminate the road capacity and people will abandon the notion of driving to the area. Then watch the air quality improve, the noise fall, and the GO and subway trains that we pay so much for fill up with people shopping, going to parks, and enjoying life.

 

[turbanplanner]

It seems silly to drive downtown. I would replace it with a regular but well designed four-lane or even a two-lane road with shops, squares, and parkland all around it.

Eliminate the road capacity and people will abandon the notion of driving to the area. Then watch the air quality improve, the noise fall, and the GO and subway trains that we pay so much for fill up with people shopping, going to parks, and enjoying life.

You're basically kicking out anyone who doesn't live near the subway or the lakeshore west line and wakes up after 5am. Some lines have no service outside rush hour or weekends on go. Mimico and Long branch fill up around 6:30am or earlier. Some people have to pickup their kids from daycare after work etc.

 

[zang]

You're basically kicking out anyone who doesn't live near the subway or the lakeshore west line and wakes up after 5am. Some lines have no service outside rush hour or weekends on go. Mimico and Long branch fill up around 6:30am or earlier. Some people have to pickup their kids from daycare after work etc.

And many chose to save money buying/renting outside of Toronto proper so they could spend the extra $1300+ a month it costs just to own and operate a car instead.

 

[turbanplanner]

And many chose to save money buying/renting outside of Toronto proper so they could spend the extra $1300+ a month it costs just to own and operate a car instead.

It's a different lifestyle TBH. I pay about $400 a month to own a car (honestly same as what some friends spend with TTC + uber) but I couldn't do my job/hobbies without it. Also having more green space etc since those are limited in the core

 

[T3G]

Many people don't choose to live in the suburbs to save money, they are forced to live there because they've been completely priced out of the actual city.

I don't see what relevance it has, anyway. You can't have it both ways. If we are building subways to York Region to serve folk who are not Torontonians, why shouldn't our road network also serve people who live outside of the city?

 

[duty free]

You're basically kicking out anyone who doesn't live near the subway or the lakeshore west line and wakes up after 5am. Some lines have no service outside rush hour or weekends on go. Mimico and Long branch fill up around 6:30am or earlier. Some people have to pickup their kids from daycare after work etc.

should go without saying, but they should/could/will have to scale all the GO lines as much as possible. I'm talking EMU's that carry 1000 pphpd with 3 minute frequencies or less.

Lakeshore west in particular has four tracks and therefore can scale the easiest. it's more complicated east of Union, but still possible.

 

[turbanplanner]

Moving to another city in Canada, I realized the need for fast transportation. Since my car is quite small, I turned to Calgary office movers https://bestmovescalgary.ca/office-moving/ who helped me with transportation. Driving along the Gardiner Expressway, experienced drivers and movers delivered my items safely. Contacting specialists helps make the move as comfortable and painless as possible.

Happy to see the PM is posting here