Northern Light
Superstar
That's coming. Sigh.
You will always read things in the most negative possible light.
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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan
- Thread starter salsa
- Start date
That's coming. Sigh.
You will always read things in the most negative possible light.
afransen
Senior Member
While this is a welcome initiative, one refinement I would suggest is that using concrete (or pavers) for the raised crossing would make it seem more like a continuation of the sidewalk, and that not doing so has important psychological effects on drivers and pedestrians about who takes priority and how one should behave in that space. An asphalt speed bump is a bit further toward 'car space' than a continuous concrete sidewalk. Even the tactile strip for visually impaired folks tells them it is a crossing and not a sidewalk.
nfitz
Superstar
They said, reading things in the most negative possible light ...
W. K. Lis
Superstar
mrgrieves
Active Member
I noticed that major intersections in Vaughan have better signalization than those in Toronto. Specifically, dedicated signals for left turns. Toronto lights rarely have left turn signals. Cars are forced to go through red lights at the end of the cycle, otherwise they will never be able to make the left turn.
This seems to make for safer streets for pedestrians and motorists.
It seems a bit unexpected that pedestrian-heavy Toronto has less safe intersections than Vaughan. I'm interested to understand why this is the case. Is it policy related, budget related, etc?
This seems to make for safer streets for pedestrians and motorists.
It seems a bit unexpected that pedestrian-heavy Toronto has less safe intersections than Vaughan. I'm interested to understand why this is the case. Is it policy related, budget related, etc?
crs1026
Superstar
Actually, the HTA requires a car that has enterred the intersection to make a left turn to clear the intersection at the end of the green cycle. The problem is that there may still be pedestrians in the crosswalk beyond the green…. And oncoming vehicles run the end of the cycle, sometimes even after the light has turned red….
Beyond the one (or two, when space permits) drivers who have entered the intersection, following left turn drivers are SOL. Once the light turns yellow, they are not permitted to try to enter the intersection and squeeze their turn into the cycle - though many do.
Giving left turning vehicles their own dedicated slice of the signal cycle (with priority over both oncoming vehicles and pedestrians) strikes me as the way of the future, yes. But I suspect Toronto doesn’t have the cash to retrofit many intersections, except when they are reconfigured and signals have to be moved or changed out anyways.
And in many cases, the ability to turn left on a green (assuming the way is clear of oncoming vehicles and no pedestrians crossing legally) is desirable to keep throughput going - otherwise backups would form.
- Paul
mrgrieves
Active Member
I should have added that the City favours left-turn signals "when signals are upgraded or when new signals are added, provided that there are proven benefits."
www.toronto.ca
Seems like we are decades behind on this
Left-Turn Signals
Left-turn signals are used at specified signalized intersections. They provide safer and more operationally efficient conditions where there is a high demand for left-turn movements and where there are many challenges associated with executing the left turn.
www.toronto.ca
Seems like we are decades behind on this
evandyk
Senior Member
The red light running is the main problem with left hand turns in Toronto. Oncoming traffic keeps flowing through the intersection for a couple of seconds after the light has turned red, then the two or three cars that have (legally) entered the intersection have to go fast to get through, then one more car enters the intersection (illegally) on the red to make a left. By this time the light has turned green for the other direction.
I have had situations where I thought there was no way the oncoming car would be going through the red light and started to make my left only to realize they were actually accelerating.
mrgrieves
Active Member
its quite shocking that this is the status quo on our streets
whydidimakethis
Active Member
Although a side effect is brutally long wait times for some intersections. Bathurst is now almost exclusively "left turn signal"ed from Steeles to the 407, Highway 7 is on all the VIVA sections, (edit: and Yonge) and crossing the street in these sections can take quite a bit of time.
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lenaitch
Senior Member
A personal peeve of mine is for drivers wanting to turn left but refusing to enter the intersection on a green. They will sit behind the stop line and enter when there is a gap or launch when the light turns amber, and a few others behind them who are frustrated. I have been told informally that some schools teach it this way.
There is little point in having a left turn signal without a dedicated left turn lane, which might restrict some existing Toronto intersections, either financially or physically.
crs1026
Superstar
One of the hardest things to teach new drivers is that there are times in driving when a sense of urgency (and some moderate level of aggressive use of power or speed) is the only safe course. It's paradoxical to all the other times when we urge caution and avoidance of impulse.
With left turns, I'm convinced there are just too many variables for the average driver's brain - between judging when pedestrians will clear, how fast oncoming vehicles are approaching, spotting changes in the situation, the sense of urgency to not impair following motorists, and the opposing sense that the right thing is to come to a stop..... so I'm a fan of left turn lanes and signalled left turn segments in the cycle. But there will be lots of places that can't happen.
- Paul
W. K. Lis
Superstar
In Toronto, most intersections with a left turn arrow signal are "advanced".
In Québec, there are many intersection that have a left turn arrow signal that "trail" the main green signal and pedestrian signal. Could be used with a priority transit signal, but Toronto Transportation Deparment refuses to give priority to public transit.
In Québec, there are many intersection that have a left turn arrow signal that "trail" the main green signal and pedestrian signal. Could be used with a priority transit signal, but Toronto Transportation Deparment refuses to give priority to public transit.
mrgrieves
Active Member
I think this comes down to where a driver was trained (formally or informally). in places with more advanced signalization, I don't think drivers are accustomed to waiting in the middle of an intersection. some cities also explicitly have signs saying not to block intersections.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Are intersections that only allow left turns during the left turn phase safer than those that allow left turn while through traffic is allowed? Though it would take much longer to make a left even if you reach when left turn phase ends. And some drivers could get impatient when there have been no opposing traffic for 10 seconds and need to wait until light turns red and green again