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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

ADRM said:
That would be huge; drivers gunning it through reds while turning right at intersections is probably the thing that leads to the highest number of close calls for me as a pedestrian.
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Yep - I had been at the receiving end of a few of those even as someone who actually checks for traffic when crossing.

AoD
 
crs1026 said:
Apologies. Next time I will put my sarcasm in quotes. It may read better.

The point being - it wasn't 1.26 seconds. It was enough time delay that several cars could have turned right had the pedestrian made the effort to clear the intersection at walking speed. It does matter when you are needlessly holding people up.

- Paul
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And if it was a senior or someone with a baby carriage or a kid, would you feel the same impatience even if they take the same amount of time (or even longer)? Speed is a consideration of drivers - not so much for pedestrians, who uses the street in different ways. This fundamental difference in understanding matters - and that's why I think it's time to segregate the use of roadspace to eliminate these grey areas completely.

AoD
 
AlbertHWagstaff said:
On the streets people seem in a rush, borderline angry, ready to go off. I mean we're getting to the point we've had drivers shoot at other drivers because they cut them off or gave them the finger. Pedestrians blissfully read phones while crossing streets (I was told by a grade school teacher who saw me looking at a library book while crossing the street to never look at anything while crossing a road, but pay attention to my surroundings, that advice has stuck with me for decades) and don't look around. People jaywalk all over the place, wearing all black clothing. Some just cross streets on red lights, daring cars to hit them. Cyclists blow through pedestrians like bowling pins, some yell at pedestrians when they're "in their way". Drivers try to beat red lights because they seem to get one after another and don't care that someone is literally inches away from their car while crossing. It almost feels like a free for all. Everyone needs to calm down and go back to that quaint old custom of observing the "rules of the road". Pedestrians should be safe when crossing streets on their lights, cyclists shouldn't have to fear getting run off the road and car drivers would get where they're going if they and the others all behaved predictably. Slowing traffic down just gets the drivers more frazzled and likely to run red lights or make hasty turns which in turn further endangers the pedestrians and cyclists. How do we get back to more civil traffic behaviour? I don't know the answer, more education all around, more enforcement of traffic rules would help, better traffic management ... living in a major urban centre brings these challenges. I don't know that these problems exist in Woodstock or Belleville, but I'm sure the same behaviour is going on there too. Fewer people and less traffic just means that it's not as likely to end up in casualties. In the meantime, be careful out there.
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Toronto adds many thousands of people every year and has been doing so for a long time. All those extra bodies and cars are competing for the same amount of space, which is why it's more and more frustrating for everyone to get around, leading to ever increasing amounts of rage and poor, emotional decision making. It's only going to keep getting worse with the rapid pace of population growth here. I've found myself getting increasingly irritated walking around downtown. I remember back in the 90's doing epic walks along Yonge street and Queen street, being able to relax and enjoy myself. Now, walking anywhere downtown is like a relentless, exhausting running of the gauntlet. Don't even get me started on the traffic and how much worse it's gotten.

Every aspect of civic life in Toronto feels like a massive chore now that you really have to psyche yourself out to in order to convince yourself the inevitable suffering is worth it.
 
Many people become more passionate about road safety after living through their own Toronto experience. Here's mine:

I live in North York. About three years ago, I was walking north on Yonge Street, not far from Mel Lastman Square. Middle of the afternoon-clear day. On the other side of the street--an older couple , mid 60s, walking in the same direction. It's a busy street. I look away and suddenly hear a loud thump as a car rolls up on the other sidewalk and plows into the back of the couple, knocking the man out of his shoes and dragging him into a parking lot. Lots of screams. Many people, including myself, rush over the help, but the man has been smashed against the pavement and then run over by the car. Blood everywhere. The woman he was with was holding his hand when he was hit and the force of the accident broke two of her fingers.
 
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sidewalk-bollards-top.jpg

From link.

BollardsMainCommerce.jpg

From link. Some could double as seats as we wait for the lights to change.
 
Meanwhile...

Explaining Houston’s Sky-High Roadway ‘Death-Goal’

From link.

Call it Blurred Vision Zero.

Houston’s municipal planning organization recently announced its annual roadway safety targets, which included a goal not to exceed 728 deaths on area roads in 2020. The only problem? That “goal” is 29 more people than the number who died on H-Town roads in 2019.

So if the Houston region meets its safety “goal” for next year, many more people will die next year.

An increasing number of roadway deaths isn’t acceptable in any sane universe — and the fact that a supposed Vision Zero city like Houston can announce that target with a straight face calls into question the very way we use safety targets in transportation planning. It’s past time for the feds to start requiring that communities set real safety goals that aggressively seek to end roadway deaths — and cut road funding when they don’t meet them.

Space City, of course, isn’t the only place that makes a mockery of safety targets: As Streetsblog reported last week, a third of states are setting sky-high death “targets,” too — and eight of them hit their grisly “goals” in 2018.
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Toronto had 63 fatalities (38 pedestrians) in 2019. See link.
 
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Similar population sizes, slightly less dense in Houston.
Both are well under 1% of the populations. Toronto has averaged a decline per capita in the last few years.
 
tiffer24 said:
Many people become more passionate about road safety after living through their own Toronto experience. Here's mine:

I live in North York. About three years ago, I was walking north on Yonge Street, not far from Mel Lastman Square. Middle of the afternoon-clear day. On the other side of the street--an older couple , mid 60s, walking in the same direction. It's a busy street. I look away and suddenly hear a loud thump as a car rolls up on the other sidewalk and plows into the back of the couple, knocking the man out of his shoes and dragging him into a parking lot. Lots of screams. Many people, including myself, rush over the help, but the man has been smashed against the pavement and then run over by the car. Blood everywhere. The woman he was with was holding his hand when he was hit and the force of the accident broke two of her fingers.
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Based on what some people in this thread keep saying, obviously it was their fault for not looking harder for cars.

But in all seriousness, this absolutely breaks my heart and its appalling that this city is doing absolutely nothing to stop incidents like this from happening.
 
TossYourJacket said:
Based on what some people in this thread keep saying, obviously it was their fault for not looking harder for cars.

But in all seriousness, this absolutely breaks my heart and its appalling that this city is doing absolutely nothing to stop incidents like this from happening.
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I will never forgive John Tory for fighting against the city’s plan to rebuilt this section of Yonge Street.
 
BhadPetrov said:
People don't blame pedestrians for dying on the roads because;

a) they have right of way in most cases and therefor the driver wasn't following the rules

b) drivers are held to a higher standard because they are in control of deciding to run somebody over

c) unlike you, most people don't victim blame and have an emotion called empathy.
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a) Again having the right of way doesn't mean the pedestrian was doing everything possible to keep themselves safe. I've seen plenty of people who cross as soon as the lights are in their favor and then stop paying attention to traffic as if having the right of way means all vehicles can't touch them and they can go back to looking at their phones instead of continuing to be alert for changes as they're crossing.

b) I think both driver and pedestrian should be held to equal standards. You make it sound like drivers are purposely looking to run over people for fun when obviously that isn't the case. Drivers need to do as much as they can to be mindful of pedestrians and likewise people need to do as much as they can to watch out for cars that aren't paying attention to pedestrians. Everyone does their part to avoid accidents. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand?

c) Again not about 'victim blaming' and more about everyone doing their part. You have no problems calling out drivers who for various reasons hit pedestrians while they're crossing which is fine. How come you refuse to call out pedestrians who for various reasons put themselves in a position to be hit when if they're paying attention like they should the chances of a pedestrian getting struck are very low?

Just do a simple experiment yourself and walk out to a corner of a busy intersection and look around you at the traffic. How long did it take you to survey the entire intersection and see how many cars were stopped or moving and whether or not the lights were in your favor to cross? Just a few seconds right? And as your crossing the road, if you continue to look around to make sure the way is still clear and that there's no surprises, how much time and effort did that take? Practically nothing and yet it could mean the difference between crossing safely and getting hit.

So why are people throwing such hissy fits about doing such basic things that require little effort and time that could potentially save their lives? It makes no sense.
 
TossYourJacket said:
I'd bet you a million dollars that if drivers took a few seconds out of their precious lives to remember they are driving a multi-ton machine that can easily kill someone and maybe did things like, drive at the speed limit, or not run red lights, or not look at their phones or maybe actually look if there's a damn pedestrian on the road that pedestrian/vehicle accidents would dramatically fall without doing anything else.
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I agree with you. Everything you stated that drivers could be doing to reduce their chances of hitting a pedestrian are things every driver should be doing as normal habits.

Now why can't you hold pedestrians accountable for their actions in the same manner? Tell them to stop looking at their phones while they're crossing, tell them to stop talking on the phone while crossing, tell them to never stop looking at their surroundings while they're crossing in case the situation changes and they could get hit. Why aren't you getting tough on pedestrians and telling them to stop being so stupid and learn these basic things that could save their lives?

You want to hold drivers accountable and tell them to smarten up? Fine. Just stop being a hypocrite and hold pedestrians to that same standard instead of treating them like little kids that don't have to take any responsibility for their own actions and behaviors.
 
I walk a lot. When I'm downtown, my head is on a swivel. I make eye contact. I'm hyper alert crossing streets, but I've still had far too many close calls. Far too many people get behind a wheel and forget that they are driving something that can kill people. Their need to get to Starbucks somehow tries their patience so that they push their way through on a right turn or run a red. All road users bear responsibility for their actions, but car drivers are the ones that can kill other road users. They are no more important than anyone else and need to learn a little patience. I'd like to see a car free downtown personally, like some European cities.
 
Max Sterling said:
Now why can't you hold pedestrians accountable for their actions in the same manner?
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because Karen who works in HR can't kill someone when she walks into someone, but when Fatima who also works in HR drives her SUV into someone there a good chance to hurt someone. Fatima likes her SUV, it has seating for 6 and can hold a lot of cargo but she knows that her car is big and pays attention to her surroundings. If only there were more fatimas in the world??
 
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