Renting in DT Toronto - What's the deal?

[HelloToday]

Browsing the Bay St. Corridor and other 'core' downtown areas for 1bdrm and 1bdrm + den units the past 2 months (Dec.2012) ...

1) Where do people find listings?
MLS is laughable ... viewit.ca is pretty bad. I checked Kijiji / Craigslist once and then had a moment of self reflection ...

2) Are these prices 'normal' ($1600/mo for 500sqft + Utilities) ???
Maybe its because they're listed on MLS and viewit that these high rents appear - but, are they really relatively high? A few places on Bay St. around Bloor / College / Wellesley are asking upwards of $1700-$1850 for a 1bdrm + den. FYI, you could purchase a ~600sqft 1bdrm + den in that area of $350k. That puts rent at a 17.5x multiple of unit value ($350,000 divided by $20k/yr in rent) ... that doesn't sound right.

3) Is there any value going through a RE agent to find a rental unit?

 

[000]

All rental listings on MLS.ca are brokered by RE agents. 500sf is a studio layout in the buildings I've looked at. $1600/mo for 500sf *including* utilities and parking sounds normal. You may save a hundred or two on condos without parking and submetered utilities. Under $1300/month you're usually not looking at condo's anymore, typically these are "professionally managed" run-down apartments bought cheap later remodeled. Under $1000/month you're looking at still run-down apartments, basement suites or a rooming house type of arrangement (most people don't want this). 1bdrm+den in super high-end luxury buildings like Shangri-la are going to be $2600+.

Try padmapper.com if you want to cut out the agent (it aggregates results from all the classified sites). Personally I would use an RE agent. They take the first month's rent as commission. The guy on craigslist isn't going to pass any savings down to you. This way at least you know the owners aren't super greedy, their obvious top concern over money is getting "the best" tenant.

 

[daveto]

Yes, those prices you've quoted sound normal.

MLS deals are brokered by agents, but you don't need one as the renter. In fact, it may be better for you not to use one, because then the listing agent gets to keep 100% of the 1-month commission instead of splitting it with your agent. Thus, the listing agent might be "subconsciously" predisposed to recommend the owner accept your application over someone else.

Also, not that you can over less than the listed rental price. It's a negotiation.

 

[UserNameToronto]

It's worth noting that rents have come up drastically over the last 2-3 years, after about 10 years of stagnation. I'm a landlord and raised the rent by >20% when I got new tenants in this year. Bet I could raise it another 10+% if they leave.

Here's an October 2011 article from Grid that talks more about rents: http://www.thegridto.com/life/real-estate/rental-illness/

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Prices mentioned are exactly what I'm paying for a 1br at the Manulife Centre. If anything, since I've moved in (Sept. '11), the price of my unit, were I to move in now, is now more than 1800/mo versus the 1700 I signed on my lease. It's one of the premier corridors in the city, you should be prepared to pay accordingly. Incidentally, I didn't use an agent. I made an appointment with the Manulife leasing agent, she showed me three units, and I signed on the spot when she showed me the one I liked best.

 

[HelloToday]

Thanks for the input everyone, and for the link UserNameToronto.

fiendishlibrarion: I found this for the Manulife Center, http://www.rentcanada.com/manulife/

$1815 for a 700sqft 1bdrm, utilities included ... not great, but not bad. I think there are other buildings South on Bay that are also Rentals that go for $1600-$1700.

 

[000]

1101 Bay is another "pro" managed building. They don't have 1+1's, but a ~600sf upgraded 1bdrm goes for $1650 or $2000 furnished. Pretty much identical to condos.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Thanks for the input everyone, and for the link UserNameToronto.

fiendishlibrarion: I found this for the Manulife Center, http://www.rentcanada.com/manulife/

$1815 for a 700sqft 1bdrm, utilities included ... not great, but not bad. I think there are other buildings South on Bay that are also Rentals that go for $1600-$1700.

That's essentially my unit. I should add that cable is also included. And yes, there are other buildings nearby that are slightly cheaper, but with Manulife (and this is just my opinion) there are a lot of intangibles that make it worth the extra cost:

- brand new appliances (stainless) and complete reno of my unit before I moved in
- almost fanatical upkeep and cleaning of the building (small army of cleaners, security, etc.)
- decent workout room negating the need for fitness club membership
- prompt service should I need something repaired
- within walking distance of other areas (downtown, Annex, Rosedale, U of T, etc.)
- wealthier, older tenants who take pride in the place
- underground connections to two subway lines, LCBO, Valumart, the Bay, Bloor Street Diner, etc.
- 25 minute walk to work/8 minute subway ride to King

 

[Ryan_T]

It seems the sweet spot for renting is $1400-1600 for a one-bedroom at the moment. Anything less and you end up really far from the core, or in a studio. For an extra $200-300 ($17-25)/month, you can have a more livable space.

I was hoping to get something between $800-1200. So much for that idea.

 

[James]

The rents have definitely creeped up stealthily. Where $1,400 a year or 2 ago might have been a good starting point, it's now in the $1,600 range. Gone are the days of $1,000/month that's for sure. Mind you, rents have been relatively flat for the past decade. The last year or so has really made an impact on the rental market. But I agree with Ryan_T, the sweet spot is still going to be that $1,400 range. If a good vacancy shows up in that price range, it'll be snatched up quick.

With regards to rent under $1,000, it's still possible but it most certainly won't be a downtown condo with a swimming pool, gym and a parking spot. I've seen some decent basement apartments in nice neighborhoods in that ballpark. For about $1,000/month, shared accommodations is always a great alternative, provided you don't mind the roommate. Don't knock it, it happens more often than one might think. I know many young professionals who choose this route to afford a bigger and/or nicer place or to be in a better neighborhood than they'd otherwise be able to get into if they were to buy or rent on their own.

 

[Milkyway]

I don’t think there is some value going through a real estate agent to find a rental unit. Why should you pay for the service that you can do even better as you know exactly what you want. You ‘ll need to pay your agent and if you look for apartment yourself you’ll save money. You have written that you’ve already checked Kijiji / Craigslist, you know, I don’t know why, but Craiglist is not so comfortable for me to use. It’s my opinion. You can consider looking to other websites, perhaps the prices will be more reasonable there and will appeal you. If you are looking for one bedroom unit try to check here http://localmartca.com/ Choose the price limit for the property and look through the variant they have. I saw some nice studios there. Hope, it’ll help you.

 

[James]

^ You're not paying the real estate agent when you're looking for a place, the landlord is.

 

[TheKingEast]

As someone who has rented out several condos. It is surprising how many people (usually out of towners) are completely clueless of the rental market and the going rate. In a hot market I had some people offering $200 under what I was asking. My prices were very competitive too. Want to live in a luxury building but unwilling to pay for it.

 

[TOphotog]

Regarding "MLS is laughable", I'm a realtor and this is what I advise would-be renters. The only rentals on MLS are the ones where the landlord just doesn't have time to be meeting with potential tenants to show it, or else it's very high end. Most landlords don't want to pay us one month's rental fee so they advertise it themselves. Padmapper is great because it collects data from various sources. Toronto Star has some ads, so does the Toronto Sun. Craigslist and Kijiji are collected through by Padmapper.

Yes, the rental market, especially under $2,000/mo, is tight. As a renter, take photocopies of all your reference letters, take your chequebook, make sure you look clean and tidy, and if you find a place, grab it! People who show up with five scruffy friends scare landlords. Be on time for your appointment, be polite and they'll choose you over the dozens of others who'll be viewing it. It's almost like a bidding war on buying a house. I've heard of potential renters offering MORE than the asking price just to make the landlord choose them.

As far as any value in going through a real estate agent... in your price range, not really. You might want to make friends with a real estate agent just so they can look over the lease, and tell you about anything that doesn't sound right or legal.

 

[James]

^ I agree. MLS is certainly legitimate as one source for rental properties but the vast majority of landlords and tenants would unanimously use Craigslist, Kijiji or ViewIt. Padmapper, as mentioned a couple times already, is great since it compiles data from other sites all in one. Good, plain and simple advice noted by TOphotog above.