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Really Well Built Condos

The best you're going to find in the city is a moderately older building with moderate maintenance fees. Don't trust the ones with low fees because it's probably a sign the building isn't being maintained properly and just has a backlog of repairs waiting to happen, and don't trust the ones with ridiculously high fees because they've probably let things deteriorate to the point that massive remedial work is happening. I wouldn't buy anything built in the last ten years, and that's based on actually working on some of those towers and seeing the kind of stuff that goes on. I know one tower that has liquid floor slabs because they got the concrete mix wrong (so the top inch and bottom inch cured, and the middle six inches are slurry), and multiple towers that were fishtanked to get them through leak testing.
 
This is a great idea for a thread - and the initial dearth of responses probably says something about UT ;)

I've heard Tridel-built condos are solid, but that may just be hearsay. I am really curious to know, however - in particular about sound-proofing, as I'd really like to move in somewhere that, unlike Cityplace, minimizes the amount of sound travelling between units.
 
Another factor in maintenance fees is the number of units in the building. The lower the number of units, the higher the portion each unit owner must contribute toward fixed costs like security. 25 Esplanade has very low maintenance fees but it's actually well-managed, up-to-date, and has a huge reserve fund, despite being over 25 years old. This has been made possible by the fact that the building has minimal amenities and a very large number of units. I'm not and have never been an owner or occupant, but I know people who live/own there.

I'm at 7 King East, which has very good soundproofing between units. I seldom hear anything other than the occasional thuds/moving furniture from the unit above me, and nothing from either side or below. However, it also wasn't originally constructed as a condo, but is a converted office building. Maintenance fees are reasonable. Very few of the units have much of a view though; I currently have one, but will lose most of it once 88 Scott goes up.
 
Bruno Republic said:
Another factor in maintenance fees is the number of units in the building. The lower the number of units, the higher the portion each unit owner must contribute toward fixed costs like security. 25 Esplanade has very low maintenance fees but it's actually well-managed, up-to-date, and has a huge reserve fund, despite being over 25 years old. This has been made possible by the fact that the building has minimal amenities and a very large number of units. I'm not and have never been an owner or occupant, but I know people who live/own there.

I'm at 7 King East, which has very good soundproofing between units. I seldom hear anything other than the occasional thuds/moving furniture from the unit above me, and nothing from either side or below. However, it also wasn't originally constructed as a condo, but is a converted office building. Maintenance fees are reasonable. Very few of the units have much of a view though; I currently have one, but will lose most of it once 88 Scott goes up.
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Those tend to be some of the better condos out there. The converted office buildings. The soundproofing is above average.
 
somuchwater said:
This is a great idea for a thread - and the initial dearth of responses probably says something about UT ;)

I've heard Tridel-built condos are solid, but that may just be hearsay. I am really curious to know, however - in particular about sound-proofing, as I'd really like to move in somewhere that, unlike Cityplace, minimizes the amount of sound travelling between units.
Click to expand...

Soundproofing is tough. I'd say if you want good soundproofing, don't look at anything built within the last 10 or so years. Of course, there are some exceptions in there but there are just too many newer condos with soundproofing issues that I've either experienced myself or heard about. While some of the Cityplace buildings are flat out BAD, I have a few friends in the older buildings there that I have yet to hear anything. Oddly enough, there are buildings outside of Cityplace that have worse soundproofing. Some of the glass buildings have downright terrible soundproofing. I lived in one where you easily heard your neighbour cough, sneeze, open his blinds, talk, etc. Others where you heard every step above...some where you heard the toilet flush almost as if it was in your unit. All newer condos, some of which selling for an arm and a leg.

Find an older building, converted office building. If you must have a newer one, I'd say stay away from all glass condos and stick with a reputable builder like Tridel.

They really should target soundproofing in the building code. Bring back dropped ceilings or improve the building methods. If builders could use 2 inch slab between units, they would.
 
When I lived in 15 Fort York (CityPlace) I never heard a peep from my neighbours. The soundproofing was amazing. The walls on all sides were solid concrete. I never heard talking, TV, music nothing. Quietest building I've ever lived in. Go figure.

The worst for soundproofing are covered hard lofts. They just throw up gyprock walls between each unit. 2 sheets of gyprock and some fiberglass pink. It's just brutal. No proper sound sealing at top or bottom and big concrete floor for the whole level means you hear EVERYTHING. Drove me crazy to the point I woke up one morning and just said, "F*ck this!" and moved.
 
hawc said:
The worst for soundproofing are covered hard lofts. They just throw up gyprock walls between each unit. 2 sheets of gyprock and some fiberglass pink. It's just brutal. No proper sound sealing at top or bottom and big concrete floor for the whole level means you hear EVERYTHING. Drove me crazy to the point I woke up one morning and just said, "F*ck this!" and moved.
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Someone I know was looking to buy, and told me about a loft conversion he saw (I think it was near the St Lawrence market, but my memory sucks). While looking at the unit, he could faintly hear a radio playing, but couldn't figure out where it was coming from. It always seemed to be in the next room, regardless of where he was. When he left and got into the hallway, he realized it was coming from a neighbour's unit... and it wasn't loud at all; the building just had zero soundproofing. Unbelievable. Needless to say, he immediately scrubbed that building from his potential list.
 
danielpeng said:
It's actually hard to find a cost-effective condo.
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Very, very true.

Most newer buildings have small units and questionable build quality. It seems to me that so many newer buildings weren't actually designed to be livable: I get the impression that the builder knew they would be selling most units to investors, who would be renting them out or flipping them, so neither builder nor buyer was particularly concerned with long-term livability. Many older buildings have units which are very large by today's standards and be more solid. I think this is because back in the 80s, condo developers were competing with houses, something they don't really have to consider today.

There are some buildings which look gorgeous and have units which are cavernous by today's standards and seem to sell for very reasonable prices, but they have high maintenance fees (around $1/sq ft or more) which makes them very expensive in the long run. Others which currently have low fees are built in such a way that major repairs are almost inevitable not too far down the road, like so many of these all-glass tower facades. Even with an older building with an established track record, good management, and solid reserve fund, you may be looking at having to do extensive renovations within the unit itself.

When I went looking for a place a year and a half ago, it wasn't long before I realized there were only a handful of buildings which fit my criteria. I don't drive, so proximity to the subway is very important to me. I wanted this to be a space I stayed at for a long time, potentially the rest of my life. I needed good soundproofing, a decent amount of space, reasonable maintenance fees, no window walls, and a building which wasn't largely rented out or effectively a giant student dorm, and of course, at a price I could afford. That narrowed it down quite a bit. I had a really good realtor who steered me away from potential buildings (e.g. "Terrible builder. Shoddy construction. They're going to have huge problems in ten years.") In the end, I bought a unit which required major renovations, as the previous owner hadn't given it so much as a dab of paint in 15 years, and the few things which weren't worn out or damaged were so unappealing to me that I wanted them gone anyway. That cost a fair bit, though one advantage is that everything is now exactly as I'd want it. But it's not something I'd ever want to go through again, mind you.
 
I don't have enough experience with condos to comment on what addresses are good but I do have a lot of experience with other building types. The point I wanted to add is that you can't necessarily judge a buildings performance based on the building type, age or building materials used. Some buildings built using the crappiest building materials and techniques perform amazingly, some horribly. That is what is kind of interesting about this thread topic.

I have an example for instance of a building that is just amazingly energy efficient despite having little insulation and was not built particularly well. The performance of which is more about it's site and exposure and the make-up and occupational use of the tenants.

I have an example of a building where the sound from the ground-floor commercial units is heard loudest at the top floor.

I have an example of a building that is completely ugly but is an outstanding financial performer and in the highest of demand.

These phenomena are all explainable, so I'm not saying buildings are voodoo, but that each building is also a unique creation with it's own behavior and considerations.

On this forum we tend to want to send a building off into the world and if it is pretty we say it is great. But what matters most to people actually living and working in a building is how does it feel and perform over time. The world is a lot easier if you are handsome but most great lives are lived by people who are not, and this is also true for buildings like the condos we are speaking about here.
 
Tridel buildings tend to be well built, particularly their designs from the mid-2000's onwards.

I also really enjoyed living at Radio City where the units were solid, the layout of mine was great, and the amenities were also pretty good (from a maintenance and enjoyment perspective).
 
Here's another idea ... condo hop ... buy into new construction (or just finished) ... but don't stay longer than 5 years or so ... problems don't typically surface in this time period, hopefully it appreciates enough to cover all moving fees as well.
 
ROCP is often ridiculed around here, and architecturally speaking it is by no means a masterpiece, but I have been living in ROCP I on a high floor (no balcony) for 8 years and I have had no problems whatsoever with the apartment itself. The soundproofing is the best I have experienced in my 27 years in Toronto. I might have been lucky with the various neighbours I have had over the years, but some of them liked to party and yet no noise would enter my bedroom. Practically everything I hear comes through the apartment door, and that is unavoidable.

The finishes vary according to how high you are but here they are of much higher quality than in another apartment where I was the first occupant, at the Liberties, back in 1988 - one of the walls in there was actually slightly warped. And soundproofing is much better than at the Lexington, at 45 Carlton St., which has other problems. I remember replacing a light fixture in a washroom - no electrical box, just a hole in the drywall! And fuses instead of breakers, even though it was built in 1981, as well as no range hood and no 240-volt outlet for the dryer, which is absolutely ridiculous.

In the past we have had some problems with the elevators, caused mostly by water damage from apartment floods, that would make me think twice about choosing a high floor again if I were to move. But having direct indoor access to College Park is extremely convenient.
 
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Palace Pier.....still the queen of waterfront condos. HUGE units.

Granite Place....Large units, great landscaping, great views.

33 University....granite-clad class-A office building style construction for a condo. Classy little building with a jewel-box lobby. My mom lived there for a few years.

Queen's Quay Terminal.

Not to harp on Harbour Square, but I would love one of those rare lakefront 2-story townhouses.
 
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