Rail Deck Park (?, ?, ?)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

perhaps a funicular to get between the station and Bathurst?

hahahahahahahaha

Nah, rickshaws ran by any councillor who vote for that thing.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

City unveils a proposed phasing, with the priority phase highlighted in green:

Better shot of the priority phase:

 

[innsertnamehere]

wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of the first phase can be covered by existing section 42 money.

 

[crs1026]

perhaps a funicular to get between the station and Bathurst?

hahahahahahahaha

No expanded Union LRT loop? Gosh..... found money.

Seriously, watch Tory start opposing any number of worthwhile and badly needed big-ticket capital expenditures to scrape together the funding for this. And maybe ST too.

- Paul

 

[muller877]

The big fight will be in the land valuation for the expropriation. They are currently trying to rezone the land to make it more valuable - they have no intention of building the ORCA proposal. It's a play to make the land look valuable. I am doubtful however - the cost of decking the corridor to make the land developable would cancel out almost any value derived from its development potential. I'm seriously doubtful the ORCA proposal works from a financial perspective even if land costs = $0.

If that is the case, the city likely won't have to pay much. But you can sure bet that the ORCA will certainly try to make it out that this land is worth a ton of money and is a huge development site just waiting to happen, even if it isn't.

The fight is going to be in the appeal process for the expropriation. The city will issue the notice, take control of the land, and the purchase price can be appealed to the courts afterwards. This court battle happens relatively quickly, but I wouldn't give ORCA great chances, either.

The point is that we aren't going to see some epic fight here where the city struggles to take control of the land. The city will take control of the land even if ORCA protests - and the park can be built as they fight it out in court..

Have you seen the process to expropriate the land at Dundas West to get to Bloor Station? We also should have full costing before we proceed. If through the courts it costs too much it may not be feasible to build the park.

As for land value, the owners could build over just the rail yard fairly easily. Heck, a condo is being built right now over the subway. Same technique. Is the land worth $1b. No. But it's probably worth >$100m. The question is when is the land too expensive?

 

[ADRM]

As for land value, the owners could build over just the rail yard fairly easily.

This is a whole bunch more complicated than that for a whole bunch of reasons. Not apples to apples, and the complexity of that piece shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[ADRM]

Better shot of the priority phase:

I suppose the other nice thing about this phasing is that there are two additional public spaces/parks slated for construction at the extreme left/west end of this image that will happen completely independently of progress on RDP, thus improving the public space situation in the area even before (if) this ever comes to fruition.

Also, I hadn't noticed until looking at this higher quality image that (it seems) they've broken out the westerly portion into two phases; I wonder what's behind that.

 

[raptor]

I suppose the other nice thing about this phasing is that there are two additional public spaces/parks slated for construction at the extreme left/west end of this image that will happen completely independently of progress on RDP, thus improving the public space situation in the area even before (if) this every comes to fruition.

Also, I hadn't noticed until looking at this higher quality image that (it seems) they've broken out the westerly portion into two phases; I wonder what's behind that.

Suppose they thought - what is the bare minimum for first phase. Assuming RER station going in that location anyway, might as well cover that area with a deck/park.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Suppose they thought - what is the bare minimum for first phase. Assuming RER station going in that location anyway, might as well cover that area with a deck/park.

You will notice that what the city identified as the initial phase is basically the same as the length of the proposed RER station and the corridor south of it.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

Have you seen the process to expropriate the land at Dundas West to get to Bloor Station? We also should have full costing before we proceed. If through the courts it costs too much it may not be feasible to build the park.

As for land value, the owners could build over just the rail yard fairly easily. Heck, a condo is being built right now over the subway. Same technique. Is the land worth $1b. No. But it's probably worth >$100m. The question is when is the land too expensive?

That is because Metrolinx has been in no rush. The city can go and issue their notice of expropriation for the rail deck park tomorrow if they want - Which Metrolinx only did last week for Dundas West. Metrolinx tried to play ball with the Crossways mall for years - which they weren't legally obligated to do.

As for valuation - decking the corridor is quite a bit more expensive than building over the subway. I bet you those subway developments are actually more profitable than a standard development since it lets them build their parking above ground. All you do for the subway is shift around your structure a bit to ensure it doesn't put weight on the subway tunnel. A huge, wide rail corridor on the other hand.. you need huge transfer slabs and structural engineering.

 

[crs1026]

You will notice that what the city identified as the initial phase is basically the same as the length of the proposed RER station and the corridor south of it.

AoD

Which is actually clever. RER station has provincial funding and probably federal FTIP eligibility. Lowest potential cost for the city. Get it done, establish some precedents for cost, save the city's funding needs for the next phase which may not atttract provincial or federal share.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Better shot of the priority phase:

I find breaking up the section between Bathurst and Spadina into two phases puzzling. I don't get how much money would be saved when you're going to double your fixed costs by doing it twice. The section east of Spadina, though, I get if an MTCC redevelopment is on the horizon; could make for a good s.37 project.

 

[muller877]

I find breaking up the section between Bathurst and Spadina into two phases puzzling. I don't get how much money would be saved when you're going to double your fixed costs by doing it twice. The section east of Spadina, though, I get if an MTCC redevelopment is on the horizon; could make for a good s.37 project.

The phase near the Bathurst Bridge can be done simultaneous with the the construction of the new bridge. While the Spadina end can be done with the RER stop. Doing it all at once would be a logistical nightmare so it makes sense to divide it up between the projects that are going on beside/under it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

by the looks of it they are leaving the Bathurst bridge alone. The new renders don't have the park connecting to it at all.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

by the looks of it they are leaving the Bathurst bridge alone. The new renders don't have the park connecting to it at all.

Too bad if that's the case - but I can see how that will become a heritage issue.

AoD