U
Urban Eyes
Guest
Amen, brother, Amen! Testify!
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C
Canuck 36
Guest
Women: can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em.
Good thing this place is a total sausage factory or else this thread could get awfully hot real quick.
Good thing this place is a total sausage factory or else this thread could get awfully hot real quick.
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sdoody
Guest
:rollin
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SD2
Guest
" And so most university-educated, middle to upper-middle class women always date up or at their level, not down. And that's something I've had to deal with."
So you're only looking for middle to upper-middle class women?? Sounds like you have as many superficial standards as the women you claim to despise. Perhaps you should drop the classifications and just look at people for what they are instead of dimissing all women as materialistic and narrow minded.
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fiendishlibrarian
Guest
Wow, some of you guys have it really good and don't realize it, or some of you have forgotten what being single is like. Either that or you live in a dream world.
Let me ask you this: ask your average middle-class female who's a professional whether they would date someone who makes less money than they do. Anyone who says that money doesn't matter can't be trusted. Who do female doctors, lawyers, media people, professionals etc. generally go out with? Men in their profession, at least. Or at least someone with similar income and background. That's all I'm saying. Expecting that isn't shallow and materialistic, it's realistic. This may come as a shock to some of you but women are often capable of being coldly calculating when it comes to who they choose to go out with. I know firsthand. Now, whether that's bad luck or what I don't know. But again, I've seen this time and again where a girl who I know was interested will hook up with someone more established and successful instead. Or get dumped for it, as happened to friends of mine. It happens, a lot.
It's funny that this only became a problem when I hit my mid-late 20s. It wasn't an issue when we were all carefree undergrads. It didn't matter then, but now? Different story. Too many Sex in the City episodes perhaps. But that's a fact. So really, what's the problem? I don't have unrealistic expectations of anyone. I'm university educated, so it stands to reason I would like to date someone with an education higher than grade 12. What the hell's wrong with that? Could you honestly ask the same of a university-educated woman without being laughed in the face? You're telling me that a woman with a BA would go out with a garbageman, or a plumber or a truck driver? We know the answer to that. So why the double-standard?
"Perhaps you should drop the classifications and just look at people for what they are" :rollin
Right, and when women stop doing the same to me then I'll get back to you. Like I said, some of you don't realize how good you have it.
Let me ask you this: ask your average middle-class female who's a professional whether they would date someone who makes less money than they do. Anyone who says that money doesn't matter can't be trusted. Who do female doctors, lawyers, media people, professionals etc. generally go out with? Men in their profession, at least. Or at least someone with similar income and background. That's all I'm saying. Expecting that isn't shallow and materialistic, it's realistic. This may come as a shock to some of you but women are often capable of being coldly calculating when it comes to who they choose to go out with. I know firsthand. Now, whether that's bad luck or what I don't know. But again, I've seen this time and again where a girl who I know was interested will hook up with someone more established and successful instead. Or get dumped for it, as happened to friends of mine. It happens, a lot.
It's funny that this only became a problem when I hit my mid-late 20s. It wasn't an issue when we were all carefree undergrads. It didn't matter then, but now? Different story. Too many Sex in the City episodes perhaps. But that's a fact. So really, what's the problem? I don't have unrealistic expectations of anyone. I'm university educated, so it stands to reason I would like to date someone with an education higher than grade 12. What the hell's wrong with that? Could you honestly ask the same of a university-educated woman without being laughed in the face? You're telling me that a woman with a BA would go out with a garbageman, or a plumber or a truck driver? We know the answer to that. So why the double-standard?
"Perhaps you should drop the classifications and just look at people for what they are" :rollin
Right, and when women stop doing the same to me then I'll get back to you. Like I said, some of you don't realize how good you have it.
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Darkstar416
Guest
With all due respect Fiendish, you've said the following about women over the last few days on this Forum...
1. The woman who was postering in your neighbourhood was referred to as a "bitch" even though she was doing something that is quite legal. Sure you can disagree with her about the postering issue, but calling her a "bitch" is not the way to do it.
2. You referred to all the females leaving the G-Spot nightclub as "bimbos."
3. Despite what must have been a terrifying moment for all those female -- and male -- club-goers at the G-Spot, you said "let the bullets fly." Why? Because it was mostly women you saw running out of the club terrified?
4. Every response you've made has referred to Toronto women as "calculating" and "cold."
Now it really sucks that you haven't had much luck with woman in this city. And I wish you better luck, but you truly aren't doing yourself any favours with the 52 Inc. of society if you continue to hold these sorts of attitudes.
Show a little respect and you may just get some back.
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SD2
Guest
What are you complaining about then?? You say it's totally expected that these women would want to go out with other professionals, but then complain that they won't go out with you. You make it sound like every woman is either a university educated professional or just an unsophisticated moron with a grade 12 education. This isn't the case.
Now, Im not saying their aren't many superficial women out there - there are. But not all of them are like that. You basically dismiss any well dressed woman at a club as a bimbo and anyone who's a professional and doesn't want to date you a money grubbing whore.
"You're telling me that a woman with a BA would go out with a garbageman, or a plumber or a truck driver? We know the answer to that. So why the double-standard? "
Yes. That's what Im telling you. You're mindset is far to limited and negative.
I completely agree with everything Darkstar said.
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sdoody
Guest
Me too...perhaps the problem isn't entirely with these 'bitchy' women as you would like to believe, but with your own attitude...? I've got to say, if I was a girl looking for a date, your self-indulgent whiny rants wouldn't appeal to me.
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fiendishlibrarian
Guest
Must be nice to live in your world guys, really nice. I just view women with more a jaundiced eye, that's all. I have great female friends, but when it comes to the mating game, I've seen an uglier side of them, very ugly(although I got a nice e-mail from my ex today. Figure that one out). I think some of you mistakenly put women on a pedestal, or think they're somehow above acting selfishly and venally. They aren't. I don't buy it. Like I said, this city brings out the worst in a lot of people, women included. This isn't whining or self-indulgent. Why you think it is is beyond me. Are all of you always so dismissive of experiences that don't exactly match your own?
And by the way Darkstar, I said that postering girl was a bitch because she told me to **** off after (you know, one event following another) I told her postering in the neighbourhood wasn't the best idea. Read my post again. If it was a guy I would have said he was an asshole. What's good for the goose, etc. I admit, I am not as magnanimous as you may be when someone tells you to **** off. Such generosity!
And as for bimbos, whatever :rolleyes I've been to enough clubs to know you aren't going to get into any discussion with a girl that gets beyond, so did you see the Bachelor last week? That's why they're at clubs, not museums or bookstores or political lectures. That's why I haven't set foot in a club for at least five years. And it's so nice to know that now that scene seems to require Kevlar vests in addition to a cover charge. Helmets aren't necessary :lol Give me the Brunny any day.
And I don't consider professional women money-grubbing whores. Oh no. Selfish, venal and myopic, maybe. But whores? Never! In my experience whores care not a whit for money. My goodness, whatever gave you that idea? Shocking you would use such a term. Shocking. One might say self-indulgent...
And by the way Darkstar, I said that postering girl was a bitch because she told me to **** off after (you know, one event following another) I told her postering in the neighbourhood wasn't the best idea. Read my post again. If it was a guy I would have said he was an asshole. What's good for the goose, etc. I admit, I am not as magnanimous as you may be when someone tells you to **** off. Such generosity!
And as for bimbos, whatever :rolleyes I've been to enough clubs to know you aren't going to get into any discussion with a girl that gets beyond, so did you see the Bachelor last week? That's why they're at clubs, not museums or bookstores or political lectures. That's why I haven't set foot in a club for at least five years. And it's so nice to know that now that scene seems to require Kevlar vests in addition to a cover charge. Helmets aren't necessary :lol Give me the Brunny any day.
And I don't consider professional women money-grubbing whores. Oh no. Selfish, venal and myopic, maybe. But whores? Never! In my experience whores care not a whit for money. My goodness, whatever gave you that idea? Shocking you would use such a term. Shocking. One might say self-indulgent...
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SD2
Guest
Your experiences are hardly unique. The issue is not that we can't understand because our experiences differ from yours, but that you condemn practically all females because of your own personal experiences. Would your comments be acceptable if you subsituted "blacks", "the chinese", or any other ethnic group for "women"?
Sure...from your experiences. It's kind of arrogant to dismiss all women at clubs because you haven't had the best experiences with them!
Again...with the all encompassing stereotypes...
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fiendishlibrarian
Guest
Oh, this is so much fun! I love having my romantic life and views of women examined so thoroughly (and at three in the morning too!). I'm flattered guys, really I am. 
About the club thing. It's funny so many guys go to them thinking they'll get some action (and let's face it, this is the heart of the matter). One of the reasons I stopped going to them was because I had much better luck at pubs. So there you go. No attitude, no pretences, etc. And I actually had decent conversations prior to you-know-what, so I suppose I had my cake and ate it too. And it was cheaper, which helps. Club girls don't like me, I don't like them, it's that simple. It's too tribal and exclusionary, that whole scene. I'm not into the whole primping, Barbie doll thing anyway...most girls I know who I respect and find attractive have long outgrown clubs or never went to them, so it's not like I'm missing anything. Fundamentally, I find something not quite right about someone who needs to place so much emphasis on exterior appearances, and that's what a lot of these clubs are all about. It's like a child beauty pageant for (so-called) grown-ups. I find the whole scene just too damn conformist and silly and the people there take themselves way too seriously. Keep in mind, most downtown clubs are heavily populated with 905 girls, which is a whole other thread...I also laugh when I see people lined up in front of these places. They look like old Soviet-era bread lines (albeit in designer duds).
Plus I can't stand the music they play. Any music that has to be listened to in cavernous boxes crammed with people can't have much merit aside from background music designed to get you to buy overpriced drinks, much like the muzac piped into the Gap is designed to make you buy more chinos. Blech. Besides, everytime someone asks me to go to a club I always think of the part from the Smiths' How Soon is Now? and the empty, souless atmosphere I've always felt inside them:
There's a club, if you'd like to go
You could meet somebody who really loves you
So you go, and you stand on your own
And you leave on your own
And you go home, and you cry
And you want to die
Plus, I have friends who work in clubs, and who have related to me the ugly reality behind the gloss. There's a grim, Darwinian-esthetic vibe that is intolerant and empty in its belief that if you dress up ornately enough you're somehow worthier than the poor souls who didn't get on a VIP list. It's borderline fascist, and I find there's an ugly class dynamic at play given all the money that goes into this. So any woman who is drawn to that, well, odds are they'll have a mindset that can't see beyond that. That's been my experience. But hey, if that's your thing...
As for professionals, well, I'll let the divorce stats speak for themselves. There are a lot of harried, unhappy people out there who thought if they could have the nice house, nice car and shiny kids, all would be bliss. I just find that a lot of women (not all), but a lot of women are too laser-focused on themselves and their careers at the expense of other things. They're one-dimensional. Honestly, I wouldn't touch most of them even if they were more receptive. So there you have it.
But by all means, keep the advice flowing fellas. :tup:
About the club thing. It's funny so many guys go to them thinking they'll get some action (and let's face it, this is the heart of the matter). One of the reasons I stopped going to them was because I had much better luck at pubs. So there you go. No attitude, no pretences, etc. And I actually had decent conversations prior to you-know-what, so I suppose I had my cake and ate it too. And it was cheaper, which helps. Club girls don't like me, I don't like them, it's that simple. It's too tribal and exclusionary, that whole scene. I'm not into the whole primping, Barbie doll thing anyway...most girls I know who I respect and find attractive have long outgrown clubs or never went to them, so it's not like I'm missing anything. Fundamentally, I find something not quite right about someone who needs to place so much emphasis on exterior appearances, and that's what a lot of these clubs are all about. It's like a child beauty pageant for (so-called) grown-ups. I find the whole scene just too damn conformist and silly and the people there take themselves way too seriously. Keep in mind, most downtown clubs are heavily populated with 905 girls, which is a whole other thread...I also laugh when I see people lined up in front of these places. They look like old Soviet-era bread lines (albeit in designer duds).
Plus I can't stand the music they play. Any music that has to be listened to in cavernous boxes crammed with people can't have much merit aside from background music designed to get you to buy overpriced drinks, much like the muzac piped into the Gap is designed to make you buy more chinos. Blech. Besides, everytime someone asks me to go to a club I always think of the part from the Smiths' How Soon is Now? and the empty, souless atmosphere I've always felt inside them:
There's a club, if you'd like to go
You could meet somebody who really loves you
So you go, and you stand on your own
And you leave on your own
And you go home, and you cry
And you want to die
Plus, I have friends who work in clubs, and who have related to me the ugly reality behind the gloss. There's a grim, Darwinian-esthetic vibe that is intolerant and empty in its belief that if you dress up ornately enough you're somehow worthier than the poor souls who didn't get on a VIP list. It's borderline fascist, and I find there's an ugly class dynamic at play given all the money that goes into this. So any woman who is drawn to that, well, odds are they'll have a mindset that can't see beyond that. That's been my experience. But hey, if that's your thing...
As for professionals, well, I'll let the divorce stats speak for themselves. There are a lot of harried, unhappy people out there who thought if they could have the nice house, nice car and shiny kids, all would be bliss. I just find that a lot of women (not all), but a lot of women are too laser-focused on themselves and their careers at the expense of other things. They're one-dimensional. Honestly, I wouldn't touch most of them even if they were more receptive. So there you have it.
But by all means, keep the advice flowing fellas. :tup:
C
cassiusa
Guest
fiendishlibrarian,
I agree with a lot of what you say, though you do sound a little bit jaded. But this comes with experience.
Advice:
Stick to Toronto women that aren't from Toronto. I've always found them more receptive, passionate, loving and less "stuck up" (sorry. couldn't think of a better way to say it).
I agree with a lot of what you say, though you do sound a little bit jaded. But this comes with experience.
Advice:
Stick to Toronto women that aren't from Toronto. I've always found them more receptive, passionate, loving and less "stuck up" (sorry. couldn't think of a better way to say it).