Province eyes Metrolinx shakeup

[Railization]

What I don't get is why the Mayors are on there? Why not just have a rep (or chair) for each transit service?

The transit agencies are either:
a)Owned by the municipality (e.g. Toronto)
b)Are a division within the municipality (e.g. any 905 system except Hamilton)

 

[Railization]

When someone that you're arguing with here actually exhibits a subway or nothing mentality, then you'll have something to rail against. Until then, you're just piling red herrings into the discussion. Where did anyone propose a 5-6km subway extension to STC and/or nothing else? People were clearly just noting that subways have intentionally not been given a fair chance - or even thrown into the mix of options - in studies like the SRT corridor, both before and, more importantly in this thread, after Metrolinx.

kEiThZ's stance comes off as if a subway to STC is a god-given right that cannot be denied. If that's not his position, then he needs to turn down his rhetoric, because his writing comes off as hysterical. Otherwise, hail to the limitations of text-based communication if there's a crossed-wire here.

What you don't realize is that my primary goal for STC has been to kill the SRT (LRT branching out has always been preferable to keeping the SRT, although extending the subway would be even more preferable and does not preclude extending LRT lines beyond STC...there's quite a few posts on the subject lying around the forum). Routes like McCowan and Lawrence are ideal for properly implemented (as in not Spadina streetcar) light rail...I've always thought so.

I think everybody want the SRT's current technology to die... except Bombardier.

What you also don't realize is that I (and probably kEiThZ, too) would *of course* choose a vast network of properly built light rail lines instead of one 5-6km subway extension. That's not a real option that we're being presented with, though. At this point, LRT fanning across Scarborough is little more than a fantasy map proposal...2 of the 3 LRT lines proposed for Scarborough are poorly planned potential disasters, likely offering no significant improvements over the buses they're replacing at exhorbitant cost and not serving anywhere close to the busiest parts of Scarborough.

What makes the Sheppard and Morningside routes so awful? How can they not be an improvement over the bus service when they will be in dedicated lanes, and have vastly higher capacity?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

kEiThZ's stance comes off as if a subway to STC is a god-given right that cannot be denied. If that's not his position, then he needs to turn down his rhetoric, because his writing comes off as hysterical. Otherwise, hail to the limitations of text-based communication if there's a crossed-wire here.

Don't assume your posts aren't coming across the same way.

Until the SRT is dead, kEiThZ's stance is correct.

What makes the Sheppard and Morningside routes so awful? How can they not be an improvement over the bus service when they will be in dedicated lanes, and have vastly higher capacity?

Again, there's a million posts on this stuff in other threads. Among other things, keep the cost of these lines in mind.

 

[kEiThZ]

The transit agencies are either:
a)Owned by the municipality (e.g. Toronto)
b)Are a division within the municipality (e.g. any 905 system except Hamilton)

That still does not explain why the board members have to be mayors of the towns and cities. Or why non-politicians should be ruled out absolutely.

kEiThZ's stance comes off as if a subway to STC is a god-given right that cannot be denied. If that's not his position, then he needs to turn down his rhetoric, because his writing comes off as hysterical.

How was I hysterical? Please point it out. I have never said that Scarborough has a god given right to a subway. You take it that way. But I am profoundly upset that a subway for the SRT corridor is not given a fair shake and is often ruled out pre-maturely by downtown centric politicians who have little understanding of the nature of the borough, don't understand its travel patterns and aren't willing to invest sincerely in it. In my view, the TTC and Metrolinx have not undertaken fair and unbiased studies that would rule out subways with sound evidence. If they do, I'll shut up.

Here on in, please avoid being my psychic and stick to the debate at hand. Right now, your conduct would seem just as hysterical as the behaviour you accuse me of undertaking.

 

[Railization]

Don't assume your posts aren't coming across the same way.

I provide figures, kEiThZ doesn't.

 

[kEiThZ]

I provide figures, kEiThZ doesn't.

Unfortunately, I am blogging off my phone this week. Give me time. I'll have figures.

 

[RedRocket191]

Each Upper tier representative gets one appointee, except Toronto which gets three. They are free to appoint whomever they wish. In York, Halton and Durham they appointed the regional chairs. In Toronto and Hamilton they appointed the mayors. In Peel, however, they appointed Hazel instead of Kolb.

They didn't have to appoint the mayors. In theory, they could have appointed Zanta.

 

[Railization]

That still does not explain why the board members have to be mayors of the towns and cities.

What you just quoted was the explanation. They own the transit agencies (and approve any and every decision those agencies make). What's left to explain?

How was I hysterical? Please point it out. I have never said that Scarborough has a god given right to a subway. You take it that way. But I am profoundly upset that a subway for the SRT corridor is not given a fair shake and is often ruled out pre-maturely by downtown centric politicians who have little understanding of the nature of the borough. In my view, the TTC and Metrolinx have not undertaken fair and unbiased studies that would rule out subways with sound evidence. If they do, I'll shut up.

Here on in, please avoid being my psychic and stick to the debate at hand.

Profoundly upset, hysterical, same thing (potaeto, potahto).

It was not pre-maturely ruled out. It all comes back to thresholds.

You can't say that this is due to downtown-centric politicians when these same politicians approved hare-brained subways to Vaughan (but that's by-and-large all Moscoe's fault... and TTC staff's, of course, who set the bait).

You know that one of the Scarborough Councillors sits on the Metrolinx board, so if anything, Scarborough is getting special treatment at the Metrolinx table. If that's not happening, then you should complain to that Scarborough Councillor; Norm Kelly.

 

[Railization]

In theory, they could have appointed Zanta.

Is that an improvement?

 

[Whoaccio]

That's my point. Where's the leadership? How could the province create a board which can be bullied around by the TTC like that and expect to get anywhere?

This really is the crux of the issue. When Metrolinx was first announced, in my heady youthful optimism, I assumed the agency would be more than a social club for already existing transit agencies. More broadly, I am increasingly skeptical if transit in GTA/H region can be coordinated properly with the TTC in the picture. Given that the TTC has ~80% of GTA transit ridership, it has no reason to listen to anything Metrolinx or the Province has to say. Without any incentive to coordinate with other agencies, it has to be bribed into doing things. Like the RHC extension, now City Council is trying to extort the province into giving it ~2+ billion dollars to cover its ass. I'm pretty sure an ostensible public transit operator has never before requested a bribe to -ghasp- build transit.

 

[doady]

Having mayors in Metrolinx sounding like an honorary award, not that they may actually do work there. We need people who actually want and use public transit. When was the last time that Major McCallion actually used Mississauga Transit, for example?

I actually think McCallion is quite pro-transit, but that is not the real issue here, is it? McCallion could use MT 4 times a day and I would still say she should not be a part of Metrolinx, and neither should Giambrone or Miller.

 

[Filip]

Giambrone is a regular TTC rider.

McCallion has given up driving, too (apparently age is taking its toll on her driving skills).

That's good news for street lamps everywhere!

 

[Dan416]

McCallion has given up driving herself. She still gets chauffeured around I'm sure. No way is she taking public transit to work.

 

[kEiThZ]

Railization, please take the discussion about the RT to the appropriate thread. You'll find dozens of pages of discussion by various members. I am not going to waste hours rehashing and threadjacking.

 

[kEiThZ]

What you just quoted was the explanation. They own the transit agencies (and approve any and every decision those agencies make). What's left to explain?

Just because they own it does not mean the mayor needs to be involved in every regional body. Do the mayors all sit on the GO transit board? They appoint reps who can dedicate their time and effort to the cause. I can see why Giambrone is there but Miller and McCallion Metrolinx can do without.